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Time for the next Too Busy adventure...
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Author:  rx7locost [ March 12, 2019, 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time for the next Too Busy adventure...

Looking great Tommy! 1/2 a roof under shingles is a lot of humpin' for a day. Being "Dog Azz Tired" is a just reward for a hard day's work. You should be happy with yourself. :cheers:

I see some electrical work in your future. IIWM, I'd have them do the trenching and install the service entry/ breaker box, then run the internal wiring myself. Is this for NM, BX or conduit? If you haven't planned it yet, consider each box having 2- duplex outlets, each on a different circuit/phase. That way you have 40A total service at each box, 2 x 20A.

FYI, our local Menards has a 2pk of 4ft LED fixtures for ~$35 for the pair.

Author:  300D50 [ March 12, 2019, 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time for the next Too Busy adventure...

I'd like to make the suggestion of having a few "switched outlets" installed in the rafters, then hang your own LED lights.

I've used these (Different vendor, same panel) in a drop ceiling and they are amazing. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075QFSKSY

Not the most inexpensive, but damn even lighting without hot spots.

Author:  BHRmotorsport [ March 12, 2019, 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Time for the next Too Busy adventure...

Tommy, you should locate more than one duplex outlet over the area where you’re workbench will sit. Put 2 or 3 or more there as it’s really nice not having to unplug a drill to plug in the angle grinder etc. Bill

Author:  TooBusy [ March 12, 2019, 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Time for the next Too Busy adventure...

The quote has 16 outlets inside and a single exterior outlet for leaf blower, pressure washer etc.

We're talking later today to see where we might be able to save some money. The exterior flood lights are CRAZY EXPENSIVE from his supplier.
I think I'll delete the carriage lights from either side of the big door. I don't like the look.

Wifey Dearest says spend whatever I want to this is our forever house and that's my shop.
I love that woman.

Author:  carguy123 [ March 13, 2019, 12:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time for the next Too Busy adventure...

Your price quote seems to be SOP with electricians. Call another and let him know you're calling another. They seem to think that it will be too much trouble and you'll just roll over and pay the price.

Author:  TooBusy [ March 13, 2019, 8:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time for the next Too Busy adventure...

I had two more electricians come out yesterday to look at the job. Both have instructions to give me 2 quotes. One for turnkey everything soup to nuts, the other for service to the building with 4 switched outlets on one circuit in the rafters and one hot outlet in the rafters for the garage door opener.

I told both I was getting 3 competitive bids and I'm ready to hire.

First guy called yesterday afternoon to ask if I was ready to start, so I told him I was getting 2 more bids on exactly the same work.
So he says, well I was looking at the materials list. I was planning to put in a 12/24 panel so you'd have plenty of room to expand, but if it's ok with you we can put in a 6/12. IF we do though you'll only have room for 6 more breakers.

ME: WTH????? If I have EVERYTHING I asked for with 6 breakers, why would I need space for 18 more in a large panel? What's the price difference? (meanwhile I'm launching google)

Well the breakers are less expensive for the big panel.

ME: Dickie, I'm looking at google, I can buy panels that use the same square D breakers. One is $120, the other is $20. You did see me out there building this thing myself to manage the budget right?

Well, you need to be careful getting quotes from a bunch of guys, you never know what you're going to get.

ME: Thanks Dickie, I'll give you a call after I compare all 3 bids and let you know where you stand. If you need to sharpen your pencil, now is the time.

Author:  carguy123 [ March 13, 2019, 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Time for the next Too Busy adventure...

You called his bluff and he didn't think you would.

And how does he think you got him except by calling someone who you didn't know who they were?

Author:  rx7locost [ March 13, 2019, 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Time for the next Too Busy adventure...

I would have a tough time giving that guy the job after a getting 70% increase between verbal a written quote. Really, why would he call you to quote you a material price. He is obviously trying for a new boat come this fishing season. He didn't even listen to your job requirements for the quote. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night worrying about what unexpected shortcuts he might take if he got the job?

Telling him to sharpen his pencil after he already did (in his favor) might get him closer to the other 2 quotes. I'd still choose another electrician after checking licenses, insurance and recent references of course.



edit: It just came to mind, his new quote is strikingly close to this original quote minus the last 30% payment. He may just walk if the work doesn't pass inspection and never look back.

Author:  TRX [ March 14, 2019, 1:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time for the next Too Busy adventure...

rx7locost wrote:
He didn't even listen to your job requirements for the quote.


A client needed their network cabling re-done. It was a mess that had cables hanging from the ceiling, taped along floors, whole bundles that didn't seem to be connected to anything... I don't do that sort of work, but I wrote up a Request For Proposal for them, specifying exactly what the job was, complete with a dimensioned office plan. We're talking about a small business; only half a dozen rooms and an acoustical tile ceiling, and the client agreed that surface-mount cable runners would be acceptable.

So there were twelve companies in the phone book that advertised network cabling. Four never picked up the phone. Four I left messages, two eventually called back more than a week later. Four had someone answer and promised to send someone out. I got fax numbers for three and an email address from the other and sent them copies of the RFP right then.

I printed out half a dozen copies of the RFP and floor plan and put them in little folders, and told the Operations Manager (who would be making the actual deal and cutting the check) to give one to whoever showed up.

Only three finally showed up. Apparently none of them were exactly confidence-inspiring... they picked the best of a bad lot, who showed up, spent most of his time on his phone, then did the rest of the job in two or three hour segments, showing up once a week for over a month.

Next time I'll know to add a "job to be finished by $DATE" in the proposal...

Author:  300D50 [ March 14, 2019, 2:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time for the next Too Busy adventure...

OUCH.
As a former subcontractor in the IT, network infrastructure and CCTV/access control business (read, cable installation monkey, end user support, commission a server, jack of all trade), my priority was to do the job to 110% in the minimum number of billable hours required, as fast as possible, as flexible as possible, and before the negotiated project end date.
Seems counter productive to the bottom line of the main company at first glance, but the outfit I contracted with makes a point of emphasizing that their rates, while higher per hour than some, produce results superior to the competition.
That in turn generates immense customer satisfaction and higher perceived value, which pushes further business through word of mouth references.

In short, you can charge high, but you better damn well be worth every penny! :mrgreen:

Author:  TooBusy [ March 14, 2019, 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Time for the next Too Busy adventure...

300D50 wrote:
OUCH.
As a former subcontractor in the IT, network infrastructure and CCTV/access control business (read, cable installation monkey, end user support, commission a server, jack of all trade), my priority was to do the job to 110% in the minimum number of billable hours required, as fast as possible, as flexible as possible, and before the negotiated project end date.
Seems counter productive to the bottom line of the main company at first glance, but the outfit I contracted with makes a point of emphasizing that their rates, while higher per hour than some, produce results superior to the competition.
That in turn generates immense customer satisfaction and higher perceived value, which pushes further business through word of mouth references.

In short, you can charge high, but you better damn well be worth every penny! :mrgreen:


AMEN!

The crew that built my storage shed is the perfect example. They weren't the cheapest solution, but they communicated well, showed up when they said they would, and 8 hours later I had EXACTLY what I asked for.

The concrete guys were the exact opposite. Communication sucked, they didn't know or understand the code, I never knew when I'd see them, and the final grading still isn't complete. I'll admit the weather has been less than stellar, but they've missed 3 solid weather windows to finish this up.

I'm waiting on quotes, but I'm leaning toward the second guy. He's responsive, asked the right questions, and understood that I'm working on a budget. We'll see how it all shakes out...

Author:  geek49203 [ March 14, 2019, 9:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Time for the next Too Busy adventure...

300D50 wrote:
OUCH.
In short, you can charge high, but you better damn well be worth every penny! :mrgreen:


As a current IT guy... yeah. I've lost too many jobs to cheaper labor, and by the time the mgmt figures out that things are in chaos, it's too late. All to save $5/hour.

Author:  TooBusy [ March 19, 2019, 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time for the next Too Busy adventure...

I haven't given an update in a few days, so here goes.

Electrical - First guy called again to see if I was ready to start. He's getting busy and wants to get me in line... I told him I wasn't done reviewing competitive bids and that I'll call him by the end of this week to let him know one way or the other.

Third guy called, said he just picked up a contract for doing all of the new apartments going in about 2 miles down the road. If I wanted him I need to start this week, or wait 4 months.

Second guy, the one I like, texted and said he needed a couple more days to work up my quote. He had bids from 2 supply houses and wasn't happy with either one as copper had gone up 30% since last week. I'm supposed to hear from him later today. Fingers crossed.

Framing:
It took two sessions separated by a business trip, but the other half of the roof is DONE!
I like the color, it's a little darker than the house, but not a bad contrast, and there is nowhere from the street that you can see both at the same time.

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Then the door, window, and vinyl siding arrived from Lowe's. I got to work putting the last bits of sheathing on to button up the walls and have the interior space dried in.
With that done I grabbed the recip saw to cut the window and side door openings.
Wifey Dearest's brother came over for lunch and to "lend a hand". He's great when the hand you need is moral support and nothing that requires physical labor. :roll:

After he left Wifey Dearest helped me install the house wrap, door and window.
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With that done I'm "officially" dead in the water until electrical is done. I'm not "supposed" to do the siding until the inspector signs off. He can't sign off until electrical is done in case the contractor puts holes in framing where it doesn't belong.

I called the chief inspector to ask what I should do; nothing, install garage doors, or start siding.
He says, text me a few pictures of your framing details; top plate, anchor points, truss attachments, and gable end bracing.
Oh, and what was your nail spacing on the wall and roof sheathing?

Nailing 6" or less on the perimeter, 12" or less in the field. H clips installed on edges between the trusses of the roof deck. Shingles 4 nails each, framing two or three 16D hot dipped galvanized ring shanks in every stud.

Him: Why HDGs everywhere, they're only required on the pressure treated?
I like the holding power better than the sinkers and they're only $1 more per thousand, so $2.50 on a $20k structure is cheap insurance.

Him: Do your siding, do your garage doors. I'll see you when the electrical is done.
:yay:

Author:  carguy123 [ March 19, 2019, 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Time for the next Too Busy adventure...

Now get some of that rolled sound deadening type of tape and seal around those windows. I call it sound deadening because it looks just like the sound deadener you get for cars except it doesn't come in as wide of a sheet.

It really helps with air penetration

Author:  TooBusy [ March 20, 2019, 8:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time for the next Too Busy adventure...

carguy123 wrote:
Now get some of that rolled sound deadening type of tape and seal around those windows. I call it sound deadening because it looks just like the sound deadener you get for cars except it doesn't come in as wide of a sheet.

It really helps with air penetration


There's a specific tape for the Lowe's house wrap and a different specific tape for Tyvek. Bituthane membrane says it will stick to Tyvek, but doesn't say anything about Lowe's.

I grabbed a large roll of the Lowe's tape and did the window yesterday. Will do the door today and figure out how I'm supposed to tape , seal, waterproof the garage door openings.

I think I'm supposed to put the aluminum trim cladding flange under the house wrap and tape the wrap to the cladding. Then install the J channel and siding on top of the protection.
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