LocostUSA.com

So I'm finally at the point where I'm trying to decide which welder to buy, and I'm wondering whether or not I should get a TIG, instead of a MIG. Cost isn't a huge issue, so it doesn't concern me that TIG will no doubt cost more. And I'm not worried about it being more difficult to master. I'm in no hurry.

The reason I'm considering TIG, is that in addition to welding the frame, I want to be able to weld stainless headers, aluminum sheet, etc.

So I guess my real question for you guys who have already built your frames - is there a downside, or any particular reason I shouldn't go with TIG for the frame?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this.

Thanks,

AE

You said the two things that say TIG.

Not worried about cost

Aluminium sheet.

I thought I hated my TIG when I first got it, but years later I can't live without it. It makes you weld better. I have put my "questionable" wells to the test when I started. I broke my vise of the bench and twisted the tube I was testing.

Go TIG... you won't regret it, especially given your future wants.

KS

Check out the Miller MaxStar 150 STH. Nice little unit can be had for around $1k and will do aluminum. This was my first toy. Loved and miss it!

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Check out Firearm Finishes & Coating for options to ceramic coat your Locost parts. Hundreds of stock or custom colors including Chrome and Clear Coating options now available! High Temp options for hot bits!! Plastics too!!

Never become a pessimist. A pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.-Robert A. Heinlein

If you can afford to, then I would get both.
I have a Lincoln 180, which I did all my frame and roll cage with, and I added an Eastwood TIG 200, for some of the detail stuff (headers, drive shaft, rod end bosses, etc) I'm very happy with both; today I TIG'ed a stand for my vice, for which I used 1/4 plate and 3x3x1/4 square tubing. It handled it just fine. I like the MIG for doing the frame, because positioning can be a challenge, especially when you get further along, and it is easy for tacking.
If you can only go for one or the other, the TIG will give you more options.

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Martin


My build log:
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14520&start=0
My build video:
https://vimeo.com/143524140 password "matovid"

Really the only reasons for MIG over TIG are cost, and time. MIG is cheaper and faster (both to learn and do). Sounds like you are concerned about neither so TIG it is
Cheers.

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Build log: viewtopic.php?t=9291

Thank you gentlemen! TIG it shall be.

AE

Not so fast, clueless(builder) one! There are other voices in this wilderness.

TIG is wonderful. I wish I could do it well. But, here are a few things to consider in the short term of getting going with your build project.

1) TIG is slow! MIG is fast.

2) TIG takes real time to master, MIG is much easier to learn and do well, but not trivial, so give it some respect as an achievement. It can be done beautifully and with strength. Check out this MIG like TIG thread in the Welding Web forums.

MIG like TIG (page 2, there's a lot more on page 1 too) ==> http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?30 ... -Tig/page2

3) Even with a chassis rotisserie, you'll need to do out-of-position welding and MIG is much easier to do that with, particularly for the novice welder.

4) You're going to be doing a lot of different stuff, like building various pieces of infrastructure, jigs and one-time-use parts and various small tools where MIG is a more appropriate process than TIG just because of the time and trouble TIG takes to set up and do versus a quick application of MIG. With MIG you can tack weld easily and quickly too. You'll also do a lot of that.

5) MIG is less expensive and you can weld longer too. The MIG gas is cheaper. The MIG wire is cheaper. If you screw up, you don't have to regrind your tungsten 'cause you don't use any with MIG. Regrinding tungsten gets real old and is a constant interruption of your processes if you're learning and a real nose bleed IMHO.

I say go MIG now and aspire to do TIG, but don't make it your first welding process when starting out on a Locost project. I pass this on from my own experience. I tried to start with flux core because I was on a strict budget - don't bother with flux core and thin steel unless you are total masochist. I switched to a scratch-start TIG system (budget again), but discovered what a slow and demanding method it was. So, I switched to MIG and bought a small, but high-quality MIG welding rig, which really made things much easier and faster.

Good luck with whatever choice you make, however.

Cheers,

Lonnie

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886

Lonnie-S makes some good CONS to TIG. Some that I had forgotten.

Tungsten: Speed here is relevant. On a box of 10, I break all my electrodes in 2 and then sharpen both ends all at once. Yes... it takes a little time, but when you have 40 all ready to go there is no down time during welding. The one that no one EVER mentions here is that "red" tungsten is 2% Thorium. SLIGHTLY RADIOACTIVE! It's the goto electrode for mild steel. Nothing else works. Just something to consider when grinding it!!

Speed: I argue on the speed one for my own lessons. TIG makes you go slow, but the speed MIG allows can make for some beautifully worthless welds. Some you'll never know about until it lets you know halfway through turn one! I have never had a TIG weld fail. Metal failed, yes, but not the weld.

Gas: I use Argon on both my MIG and TIG set-ups, so there is zero cost difference. You can use Ar-CO2 on both MIG and TIG, so that really isn't a valid reason to go one or the other.

Other PROS that haven't been mentioned.

Wire Feed: When it works, it works well, but when it goes bad you might as well pack it in for the day cause it won't get any better. If you have tons of space and can lay out a 15ft hose in a nice line to promote good runs, GREAT! But when your twisted and turned and the hose is twisted and turned, MIG can be a real PITA.

Welding around corners is possible once you get fluent. I'm not talking blind welding, but rounding a corner with the arc and finishing the weld without moving your hand position. MIG is much less position tolerant IMHO.

Additionally you mentioned Aluminum welding. MIG and AL are fickle friends. Some welders, spools and sheaths do it well. Others you would have to pay me to use and even then I wouldn't. If you go MIG for this option, buy the best you can afford, then pay more!

Surroundings: This isn't always considered, but it can play a key in choice. I can TIG in my living room (don't ask how I know this). Can you do that with MIG? Some landlords will not let you weld at all. Mine wouldn't till I showed them how "safe" TIG was. No splatter has a huge plus in my book.

Overhead welding with MIG... yeah, I'll pass. Last night I had to add a brace right beside my installed fuel line and plastic pump. There was no room for barriers... Stick and MIG couldn't do that. TIG gives you a lot of freedom that other methods do not!


Don't get me wrong. TIG ain't all that. There are many times, especially lately when finish welding the frame, when I wish I had a MIG for it's speed, but all that goes away when I can weld 5" away from mask, in the tightest contorted space to get that stupid weld that you totally forgot and don't have to disassemble everything to do it and using the bob-tailed torch head slips right in there. TIG can be faster sometimes. MIG does a lot, but it can't do everything.

TIG also demands that you have very tight joints to start off with. MIG has a lot more latitude in this area, which can be good and bad. MIG you need to build OUT for ease and being able to weld all sides. TIG is pretty darn forgiving considering I just finish welded my fully assembled frame in a weekend. Many places I could not have gotten a MIG head.



When I started this almost 7 years ago now I could weld stick and did OK with MIG. I'd never done TIG. The Locost was my 1st real welding project. Consider that fast isn't always the best thing to be when learning.

Having been exposed to welding in the oil fields and nuke plants as a commercial diver and watching which method that they use for the precision welding they do ultimately made my choice. I've never seen a MIG welder in a nuke plant.

We all have our favorites. Ultimately the choice is yours. Think about what you want to do with it tomorrow. After all it's easier to grow into a tool than it is to outgrow one!

KS

K "nuked" S

_________________
Check out Firearm Finishes & Coating for options to ceramic coat your Locost parts. Hundreds of stock or custom colors including Chrome and Clear Coating options now available! High Temp options for hot bits!! Plastics too!!

Never become a pessimist. A pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.-Robert A. Heinlein

If you have a local technical school take some welding classes. Youll get a chance to try both types of welding to see which youre more comfortable with get to practice too. Its faster to learn i think when someone can show you the right way and tell you what you are doing wrong as well when you mess up. Heck you might even get to weld up some og your locost in class.

I remember being jealous of all the Car Shop guys doing this in class... while I was toiling away in my Electronics class.

25 years later.... not a resistor in sight, but I got some damn cool welding toys!! Just hacked out my drivers side floor with the plasma cutter!! 5 minutes... 12ga stainless... It's the BOMB!!!

+1 on this suggestion. Adds some time, but well worth it!! Get in good with the teacher and you might be able to after hours and weekend some of the tools in the shop!

K "schooled" S

_________________
Check out Firearm Finishes & Coating for options to ceramic coat your Locost parts. Hundreds of stock or custom colors including Chrome and Clear Coating options now available! High Temp options for hot bits!! Plastics too!!

Never become a pessimist. A pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.-Robert A. Heinlein

I don't think this is true. I've yet to try using Ar-CO2 with TIG, but from what I've read/been told, the CO2 will contaminate the tungsten immediately. You typically use straight argon, or a mix of argon and helium for some aluminium applications.

Well, I don't know then. It was a Blue bottle and that's typically CO2. Maybe it was just our house bottle? Good thing I didn't get that mix bottle over the holidays when I was desperate!!

Well, I take that one back then. A quick browse of the Miller site confirms.

K "corrected" S

_________________
Check out Firearm Finishes & Coating for options to ceramic coat your Locost parts. Hundreds of stock or custom colors including Chrome and Clear Coating options now available! High Temp options for hot bits!! Plastics too!!

Never become a pessimist. A pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.-Robert A. Heinlein

Lonnie and botbasher, thanks for your very informative replies. Looks like there are many arguments for, and against, each method. All things considered, and right or wrong, I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with TIG.

I like the idea of being able to weld in my living room too.

I may live to regret my choice, but I'm used to learning from my mistakes.

I'll probably start a build log in the near future, so all can see how it goes for me. Should be entertaining, if nothing else.

AE

I have no horse in this race and have both mig & tig welders. I hear the pro tig lobby and you cant argue with the points raised but feel that a tig for chassis welding is just too slow. Both tig and mig done badly will produce similar welds in terms of strength, both mig and tig will produce welds of sufficient strength for anything we are doing here if done properly . Whichever you choose my advice would be practice your welding anywhere other than your chassis and dont touch the chassis until you are 100% sure you are ready .

Bob

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Build Log viewtopic.php?f=35&t=16640&p=187700#p187700

Mancave http://s1116.photobucket.com/user/mypic ... ow/mancave

I agree with Bob that both can produce fantastic welds and both can produce deficient welds, but why is there a focus on speed when it come to Locost builds? We're not exactly know for our record setting build paces!

K "missing something?" S

_________________
Check out Firearm Finishes & Coating for options to ceramic coat your Locost parts. Hundreds of stock or custom colors including Chrome and Clear Coating options now available! High Temp options for hot bits!! Plastics too!!

Never become a pessimist. A pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.-Robert A. Heinlein

Bob, absolutely. I'll be going through a lot of practice welding on scrap and other projects long before I attack my frame. I don't care how long it takes. I'm in no hurry.

But botbasher, I'm hoping to complete my build in a couple of months. Just kidding. It doesn't matter to me how many years I take. I'm just looking forward to having some fun.

AE