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Rare & vintage, the updated ex-Tatum "Crusader".
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Author:  RichardSIA [ March 26, 2017, 1:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rare & vintage, the updated ex-Tatum "Crusader".
Actually making some design progress on this.
Have settled on the FJR 1300 engine for the Hill Climb car.
Toyota 4Runner front axle works out very well as a center section for the rear wheel drive with rear engine, even better if I swap the gear ratio.
Will probably use TR GT6 front suspension for simplicity, and because I have it.
May use modified GT6+ uprights and hubs with modern axles for the rear.
Seriously looking at a wood monocoque center as carbon fiber is just too expensive for a toy like this.
May have to give in and go space-frame with alloy panels.
Trying to keep weight to an absolute minimum.
Might do a second set of front fenders and cut them down similar to 7 clamshells.
Recently got an indexer for the CNC mill so may be able to do my own axle splines.

Checking CL for a cheap Fiat 850 to do the economy car version.
Somewhat hard to find now, most are already scrapped, or sellers are asking silly money for them.
Author:  RichardSIA [ November 27, 2019, 12:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rare & vintage, the updated ex-Tatum "Crusader".
Looking around my stack of projects and trying to decide if I can pick one or two to let go.
I might be able but know I would be kicking myself soon after.
So maybe I will just dial back some of the more radical plans.
In that light maybe an FJR1300 engine for the Tatum is just not meant to be?
I find engines at decent prices, but they are always incomplete, and by the time you make them whole you will have a pile of parts for the "same" model but from different years and likely to not play well together.

So now I'm considering just doing the first one as designed, VW drive-train and suspension.
Of course this leaves me wondering about building a high-rev engine on a budget.
Need not be crazy high, I suppose 6K might suffice.
For this I suspect I would be going the opposite of most modern VW builds, shorter stroke.
Anyone here a bug engine guru?
Author:  Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F [ November 27, 2019, 9:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rare & vintage, the updated ex-Tatum "Crusader".
Richard, given your inclinations, I think the most locost way to go is a subbie adapter and a late 80s 1.8l carbed Subaru 4 cyl boxer. It revs, makes adequate power, doesn’t require butchering the car, and has a single carb easily adapted to a cheap weber progressive down draft. The crusader nose has an opening that could be reworked for a small radiator that should be adequate for the power output.

I’ve owned a vw bus, bug, buggy, and kit cars over the years. Bug motors are not cheap to build anymore. Building for peak power at 4500 is much more cost effective. You are much better off with an engine designed to turn that rpm and deal with the oil control/foam/pressure. Consider you are starting with a pre-war design with one nut to hold the flywheel on, no oil filter except for a screen, not all the oil is screened, and no harmonic balancer. There are exceptions to some of these things but even with these limitations, it is a great design if it is maintained and operated appropriately. One of the best imho is the late 70s bus type iv 1700 dual carb very similar to the Porsche 914 engine but I still would not rev it to 6.

If you are that crazy about rpm, consider adapting a rotary.
Author:  RichardSIA [ November 27, 2019, 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rare & vintage, the updated ex-Tatum "Crusader".
Looked at some VW engine build parts.
WOW! Cheaper to build a SBC.
Around a grand for set of engine cases, 3 - 4 hundred for a counterbalanced crank. :ack:

Lots of "Dead" bugs in my area so should be able to find a whole one fairly cheap.
Of course the engine would have to be rebuilt or replaced but it would provide the suspension, trans, and maybe a title at the least.

I've also had my share of Bugs and Bug derived toys, much prefer the Corvair's.
Had a rotary engine that I took out of a Marcos, could not get $50.00 for it and so sent it to scrap instead of tripping over it.

I will look around at the Subaru engines.

New year will hopefully provide a new budget/time structure and allow me to actually work on these projects. :D
Author:  csdilligaf [ January 17, 2020, 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rare & vintage, the updated ex-Tatum "Crusader".
I did a little google search on the Tatum Crusader. I like it! Any chance of some chassis pictures?
Author:  RichardSIA [ January 18, 2020, 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rare & vintage, the updated ex-Tatum "Crusader".
Chassis has been a topic of much past discussion.
The one I nearly completed a few years ago was a space frame.

Now thinking of using a Geo Metro 1.3 engine, KEP sells the adapter.
They can be had dirt cheap, only weigh about a hundred pounds, and make nearly 100 HP!
With a rear engine, the lighter the better.
Unlike bike engines they can carry a normal VW flywheel/clutch and are not dependent on centrifugal force to keep the oil in place.

Hope to build another tatum with a space frame, and at least one very light racer with a 'Glass and Plywood monocoque.
No drawings on hand at this time.
Trying to learn how to do a space-frame drawing in MasterCam.
Author:  JackMcCornack [ January 20, 2020, 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rare & vintage, the updated ex-Tatum "Crusader".
RichardSIA wrote:
Now thinking of using a Geo Metro 1.3 engine, KEP sells the adapter.
The Metro engine isn't the fun one. The Metro was a rebrand of the Suzuki Swift, but it never had the ridiculously cool aluminum block double lumpstick engine Susuki put in what they called the GTi (at least, that's what they called it before VW started yelling at them). Very much in the style of the British race engines circa 1960 (except the suzook has 16 valve head, forged crank, hollow camshafts, fuel injection...the list goes on and does not include Lucas electric) and I think just the thing for our kind of car.
Author:  RichardSIA [ January 21, 2020, 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rare & vintage, the updated ex-Tatum "Crusader".
Even the SOHC 1.3 has about double the HP of a VW and around 50% more torque.
And they go for 150K+ miles, unlike the <50K miles of the VeeDub.
I've been using a ratty Metro XFI 1.0 three cylinder as a commute car.
Surprisingly lively and would be fun in something very light.
Thinking of throwing that engine into a Bradley GT I can get really cheap.
Still not great looking or handling, but at least would no longer be another cheap econo-box.
Would be a good practice build for adapting the Suzy engines to VW trans and making them run.
Author:  TRX [ February 2, 2020, 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rare & vintage, the updated ex-Tatum "Crusader".
I have a 1.0 Metro as a daily driver too. It'll spin the front tires on an aggressive start... I'm using another for my wife's middy.

The DOHC 1.3 four would be a-verra-nahss, but they're both quite rare and seem to have only been sold on the coasts; the closest I ever found was still nearly a thousand miles away, and it was in a car. I keep an eye out, but I've resigned myself to staying with the little triple.

Note that Caterham used the 660cc Japanese-market turbo version of the triple in the Caterham 160, until Suzuki ran out of warehouse inventory. Not a bad run, from Kei-class schlupmobile in the '80s to exotic foreign sports car in the 20-teens.
Author:  RichardSIA [ February 3, 2020, 12:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rare & vintage, the updated ex-Tatum "Crusader".
I found a 1.3 DOHC engine, not sure of the price yet.
"Check is in the mail" is supposed to come this week.
Then I will get serious about the 1.3 purchase.
If it's just too high I may settle for a SOHC 16V, those are dirt cheap at the P&P yards.
Author:  RichardSIA [ April 18, 2020, 12:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rare & vintage, the updated ex-Tatum "Crusader".
Hmm, I may have to live forever.
Bought a second Geo Metro 1.0 today, cheap!
Too many projects already but I guess I'm never going to stop until I drop. :ack:
Spent a long time looking at Midlana threads, and re-reading the Terrapin book.
Second Metro 1.0 is almost certainly a mashup donor, using a modified Tatum body. :mrgreen:
I just have to survive long enough to do it after the current projects.

And still planning on the Killer version using the DOHC 1.3 Metro engine too.
Now that drivetrains are settled I may focus on gathering parts.

If the $1,200 stim check ever arrives it will let me complete the engine rebuild for my truck.
SS kicks in August, so maybe then I will be "Retired" enough to get more done faster.

To speed that up a bit, anyone have a schematic of which wires can be cut from the ECU?
Author:  JackMcCornack [ April 23, 2020, 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rare & vintage, the updated ex-Tatum "Crusader".
TRX wrote:
Note that Caterham used the 660cc Japanese-market turbo version of the triple in the Caterham 160, until Suzuki ran out of warehouse inventory. Not a bad run, from Kei-class schlupmobile in the '80s to exotic foreign sports car in the 20-teens.
LocostUSA guys did it first! http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14652
Author:  TRX [ April 24, 2020, 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rare & vintage, the updated ex-Tatum "Crusader".
[reviews old thread] And it was so...

Whatever happened to the Cheap Skate project, anyway?
Author:  RichardSIA [ June 13, 2020, 1:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rare & vintage, the updated ex-Tatum "Crusader".
Hmm, now that I've bought Jack's 1.3 DOHC this project is officially making some progress.
What I am getting from Jack will actually help with two builds.

I know where there is a dead Karman Gia locally, need to find the owner as I might like to have the trans and suspension. Body is fairly decent but stripped so of no interest to me.
Author:  RichardSIA [ June 13, 2020, 1:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rare & vintage, the updated ex-Tatum "Crusader".
TRX wrote:
I have a 1.0 Metro as a daily driver too. It'll spin the front tires on an aggressive start... I'm using another for my wife's middy.


Progress on your middy?
Maybe you've figured out which wires you may cut out from the ECU and still run?
I want to do a "Terrapin" type build using the front section of a Tatum.
Sad to see that the Terrapin sites seem to all be dead now.
The Aussie guys have been doing some with bike engines but that seems too far away from the original concept for me.
1.0 Geo seems closer to the original Mini than a bike does.

I've now made some of my builds an official retirement business, so I think I will get to write-off some of my expenses. :cheers:
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