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Mid engine Ducati build (Exo-Duke)
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Author:  beast02 [ October 20, 2020, 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Mid engine Ducati build (Exo-Duke)

Long time lurker, long time dreamer. I have been modeling and designing 'my car' for years now. I go through cycles, usually motivated most after visiting the Monterey Historics. Last year I hunkered down and really started working on a design I liked but have scaled back and want to build an interim car first to hone my skills better.

To hone and work on my skills over the last 8 or so years, I designed and built a Go-Kart (I like vintage karts). Then I decided I needed some more work so I designed a mini 60's F1 style go-kart for the kids (never got around to making the body =( ). I took a little too long on that one and the first child started outgrowing it.

After really working on my original concept over the last, I lucked out buying our next house which has a 1000sf detached shop. Full steam ahead!! I can finally realize my dreams of fabbing my own CNC machines and plasma cutters so I can build and fab the car. Once I learn from this car, i'll hop on to that car (well, I hope, 2 kids and all of that makes things progress a lot slower than I like!)

The concept: Lightweight mid engine Ducati power (I love their deep guttural sound, almost mini-CanAm sounding) with quasi exposed frame (not an exocet......but exposed similar to how older Ducati's used to be). Right now I am hashing out the suspension front and rear and then will lock in the chassis design around it. I have modeled the chassis and body as a concept and will work to lock the chassis in over the next few months so I can begin fabricating it. I'd love to have a roller a year from now, so that's the goal =).

In the next few weeks I hope to start building the build table which I am sizing to perform double duty as a ping pong table (when a Chassis isn't being fabbed on it, they are 9'x5')

-Bryan

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File comment: First Kart build
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Author:  Kinetic Research [ October 20, 2020, 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mid engine Ducati build (Exo-Duke)

This is a superb project, layout is looking good. Glad you have the digs to get it done, all the pre-thought will help progress enormously.

Got a few technical questions;

What power/weight are you targeting?
Weight distribution? Tire Sizes?
What engine size/year is planned/available?
How are you doing reverse gear?

Looking forward to seeing this one come together!

:cheers:
Marcus.

Author:  beast02 [ October 21, 2020, 1:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mid engine Ducati build (Exo-Duke)

Thanks Marcus. Good questions, should have included some more about power/weight etc.

With Budget in mind, we will see which Ducati engine I end up with. I have been watching ebay and craigslist/offerup to see what I can get an engine for, as well as what I can get a full bike, or salvage bike. Having done some megasquirt conversions and engine swaps in the past, I know the fuel injection/ECU costs can creep up on you even being cost conscious. If I can get a full bike, then I can take the harness, ECU, starting mechanisms and require little work.


What power/weight are you targeting?
- I'd love to keep the weight low, max 1000lbs (target 800lb). I hope to get a 1098 or 1199 Panigale engine which are about 150hp. Depending on the results, turbo isn't out of question
Weight distribution? Tire Sizes?
- 40/60 distribution. I like chunky vintage looking tires, but weight/costs/availability will have to be taken into account
What engine size/year is planned/available?
How are you doing reverse gear?
-Reverse would be a starter motor wired up to a switch, starter motor engages the diff sprocket. Some quick research proved this was doable

Author:  beast02 [ October 21, 2020, 1:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mid engine Ducati build (Exo-Duke)

As I work through the suspension model on VSusp, I am at the point of well.........I think it's ok. My latest model is here: [url]https://www.vsusp.com/#0.8%26project_name%3Adefault%20values%26trim%7Bbody_roll_angle%3A0%7Cfront.left_bump%3A0%7Crear.left_bump%3A0%7Cfront.right_bump%3A0%7Crear.right_bump%3A0%7D%26front%7Bframe.susp_type%3A0%7Cframe.bottom_y%3A10160%7Cframe.center_to_upper_mount_x%3A30479%7Cframe.bottom_to_upper_mount_y%3A25400%7Cframe.center_to_lower_mount_x%3A20320%7Cframe.bottom_to_lower_mount_y%3A7619%7Ccontrol_arms.upper_length%3A36195%7Ccontrol_arms.lower_length%3A52069%7Cknuckles.hub_to_upper_x%3A18097%7Cknuckles.hub_to_lower_x%3A12065%7Cknuckles.hub_to_lower_y%3A11430%7Cknuckles.hub_to_upper_y%3A11430%7Cknuckles.hub_to_strut_axis%3A14000%7Cknuckles.strut_incl%3A8000%7Csteering.active%3A0%7Csteering.hub_to_outer_tie_rod_x%3A7620%7Csteering.hub_to_outer_tie_rod_y%3A7620%7Cwheels.offset%3A6350%7Cwheels.diameter%3A1500%7Cwheels.diameter_expl%3A38100%7Ctires.size_convention%3A1%7Ctires.section_width%3A19500%7Ctires.aspect_ratio%3A4500%7Ctires.diameter_expl%3A60959%7Ctires.width_expl%3A22860%7Ctires.compression%3A0%7D%26rear%7Bframe.susp_type%3A0%7Cframe.bottom_y%3A10160%7Cframe.center_to_upper_mount_x%3A30479%7Cframe.bottom_to_upper_mount_y%3A33020%7Cframe.center_to_lower_mount_x%3A15238%7Cframe.bottom_to_lower_mount_y%3A11430%7Ccontrol_arms.upper_length%3A32383%7Ccontrol_arms.lower_length%3A50165%7Cknuckles.hub_to_upper_x%3A17780%7Cknuckles.hub_to_lower_x%3A15239%7Cknuckles.hub_to_lower_y%3A11430%7Cknuckles.hub_to_upper_y%3A13969%7Cknuckles.hub_to_strut_axis%3A14000%7Cknuckles.strut_incl%3A8000%7Csteering.active%3A0%7Csteering.hub_to_outer_tie_rod_x%3A7619%7Csteering.hub_to_outer_tie_rod_y%3A7620%7Cwheels.offset%3A5080%7Cwheels.diameter%3A1500%7Cwheels.diameter_expl%3A38100%7Ctires.size_convention%3A1%7Ctires.section_width%3A19500%7Ctires.aspect_ratio%3A4500%7Ctires.diameter_expl%3A60959%7Ctires.width_expl%3A25400%7Ctires.compression%3A0%7D%26pref%7Bdiag1.px_per_mm%3A200%7Cdiag1.front_or_rear%3Arear%7Ctab.active%3A3%7Cunits%3A0%7Cshow.f%3A1%7Cshow.ca%3A1%7Cshow.k%3A1%7Cshow.st%3A1%7Cshow.stl%3A1%7Cshow.w%3A1%7Cshow.t%3A1%7Cshow.rc%3A1%7Cshow.rcl%3A1%7Cshow.ic%3A1%7Cshow.icl%3A1%7Cshow.fvsa%3A0%7Cshow.tl%3A1%7Cshow.kpil%3A1%7Credraw_during_drag%3A1%7Cchart.x_axis_center%3A0%7Cchart.x_axis_window%3A10%7Cchart.x_axis_num_steps%3A21%7Cchart.x_axis_field%3Atrim.body_roll_angle%7Cchart.y_axis_fields%3A%5BFR%5D.knuckles.spindle_length%7D
[/url]

If anyone wants to take a look and give feedback that would be great. Note, uprights will be custom, so all of that can change.

Author:  FastG [ October 22, 2020, 10:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mid engine Ducati build (Exo-Duke)

My only reservation would be the durability of Ducati engines. I car puts a lot higher loads on an engine/transmission than a motorcycle. It looks like dry sump setup so that should help with oiling issues. I think the clutch and transmission will have a tough time. But good luck it's going to look and sound amazing.

Graham

Author:  kreb [ October 22, 2020, 11:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mid engine Ducati build (Exo-Duke)

Following with much interest. Although if I was going to put an Italian bike motor in a car, I'd lean towards the Aprilia V4. But that's pure bench racing.....

Author:  beast02 [ October 28, 2020, 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mid engine Ducati build (Exo-Duke)

The thoughts and concerns on the bike engine are understandable, i've had them myself. I was toying with this idea a year ago but was thinking dual engine and talked myself out of it due to complexity.

Main goal for this build is to learn about suspension design and tuning to hopefully enable me to step up to the next design build project. If the power isn't enough.....thought's are to turbo it, or maybe even swap out for electric power with one of the smaller Tesla motors.

I've been hashing out the design a little more, might have some image updates in a week or so.

-Bryan

Author:  TooBusy [ October 29, 2020, 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mid engine Ducati build (Exo-Duke)

If you'd like a more complete body I hope to be offering up the Meerkat in hand laid fiberglass within a year.

Attachment:
meerkat.jpg
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Author:  Sam_68 [ November 2, 2020, 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mid engine Ducati build (Exo-Duke)

Have you come across the Australian Spartan-V:

Image

Also originally fitted with a Ducati V-twin, though they eventually abandoned it due to unreliability and fitted a Honda car engine instead:

Image

Company website

Author:  beast02 [ November 2, 2020, 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mid engine Ducati build (Exo-Duke)

Yes, i've seen the Spartan before.

Also, @TooBusy, thanks for the Meerkat offer but I prefer to design/build my own body myself. I want more of an open concept to both provide the open air experience as well as provide the exposed tube-frame as Ducati does.

I've been hashing out the suspension and mounting points, steering rack position etc over the last week as can be seen in the wireframe shot.

Attachments:
File comment: Wireframe Front
exo-duc-wireframe-110220.jpg
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