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 Post subject: Kinetic going to PayPal?
PostPosted: August 14, 2020, 4:39 pm 
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Joined: July 29, 2006, 9:10 pm
Posts: 3069
Location: Oregon, usually
A long while back (like a couple decades) I asked the Locost builder community if they'd prefer paying by check, or have us raise our prices 3% and take credit cards, and the answer was a resounding "We're building LOCOSTS, that's the point! We don't want to spend $205 for a nose today that was $199 yesterday!"

But I wonder what the answer today would be? Kinetic doesn't work on the sort of margin where 3% is a drop in the bucket, but the mail ain't as consistent as it was in my youth (before I got my AARP card) so credit cards might speed things up. I know folks in ordinary businesses build in that three percent to everything, figuring that if they take checks they have a 3% change of getting a bad one, but to date, no Locost builder has ever sent us a troublesome check, so we never had to build in that cost.

So whaddya think? Should we take payment by credit cards? Would people freak out if we included an "Add 3% for credit/debit card processing" line? What's my best approach on this?

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PostPosted: August 14, 2020, 5:10 pm 
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Joined: April 23, 2006, 8:26 pm
Posts: 6081
Location: SoCal
It's probably safe to say that starting at about 60 yrs old, the number of people having a PayPal account starts dropping off. And, with a fair number of builders at or near retirement age, a credit card is "probably" a better bet.

I might be slightly off on the wrong on the "60" age reference, and it's constantly moving higher as internet-wise people move into that bracket.

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Last edited by KB58 on August 14, 2020, 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: August 14, 2020, 6:33 pm 
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Joined: December 24, 2007, 5:11 am
Posts: 1163
Location: Seattle area
PayPal is quick, easy, and almost scam free. When I was selling and buying more pieces PayPal was the exchange of choice. Worked good in the US and Canada. No worries about either party getting stiffed. I never sold any big ticket item so the fees were negligible.

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PostPosted: August 14, 2020, 7:34 pm 
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Joined: August 28, 2010, 7:53 am
Posts: 268
You could list on Ebay and take paypal through them at an adjusted price. I sell a product on Amazon prime, my own website and Ebay. Ebay is the only place that i don't offer free shipping (ie most expensive) yet i still have sales there. The public is funny.....

You didnt ask yet, but.....my business partner and I invented, manufacture and sell really awesome mountain bike handguards - "A Helmet for Your Hands") www.geohandguards.com


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PostPosted: August 14, 2020, 8:10 pm 
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Joined: June 15, 2010, 8:29 am
Posts: 618
Location: Duxbury, MA USA
We sort of know Jack and all of my transactions have been painless, so I dont mind sending a check. I have to admit that Paypal is just so easy...I use it all the time with money going both ways. Jack, can we do it both ways so that we don't forget how to sign our names?

On another note...Sean, do you Mtn bike or just sell hand guards? I have no idea how many times I have hit my hands on a tree. If we ever escape this Covid mess and I start going back to the office, I would be up for a ride as a break from my commute (Stamford to Duxbury...and no I dont do it every day.) PM me and lets not hi-Jack Jack's thread.

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PostPosted: August 14, 2020, 10:23 pm 
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Joined: November 11, 2013, 4:47 am
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Location: No. Nevada
You would really HATE the way Pain-Pal abuses you and your account until they decide you are sufficiently proven.
If you are in a Non-PC business as I was it can get MUCH worse.
PP has a long record of freezing accounts for political reasons, then you have to go to court to get your funds released.
I have an account but try my utmost to never use it.

And yah, I'm well over 60.

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PostPosted: August 15, 2020, 11:04 am 
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Joined: December 4, 2011, 6:19 pm
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I don't even know where our check book is these days as we never use it. Until March this year almost all transactions were electronic or credit card with a few small $$ cash purchases. Since March everything has been electronic or credit card, no one wants cash any more due to covid-19 concerns. I've used PayPal successfully, meaning easy, secure and insured transactions, for about 8 years. I don't know how much extra PayPal transactions cost and don't really care because of the simplicity and security of using it.

I'm 66 minus 5 days.

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PostPosted: August 15, 2020, 2:51 pm 
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Joined: April 15, 2014, 1:54 pm
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I like the "add 3 percent for credit cards". It's honest, and most of us know that these are real costs that have to come from somewhere.


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PostPosted: August 15, 2020, 4:14 pm 
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Joined: January 2, 2009, 1:45 pm
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Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Use PayPal and am 71 ... cross-border purchases with cheques is a PITA because I have to go to the bank for a US draft. OK, that;s mixed Brit and US spelling. Check and draught to g the other way on mixtures ....

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PostPosted: August 15, 2020, 5:11 pm 
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Joined: July 17, 2008, 9:11 am
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Location: West Chicago,IL
Might I suggest increasing your base pricing to include the 3% needed for PayPal or Credit Card/ debit card transactions. For those who pay by check or other means that are treated as cash transactions, either a) keep the 3% and credit the buyer's account for future use within, say 2 years; or b) you could send that 3% back as a check (and incur the cost of your time and a stamp) :ack: ; or 3) pocket the extra cash and when you get enough saved up, go on a short vacation on us.

We all understand the costs incurred by small businesses like Kinetic's. While the idea of paying 3% more may not sit so well with some Locost builders I think more and more, the Ron Champion "low cost" philosophy has evolved in favor of a more refined and quicker build. The extra 3% won't make or break any builder's budget. You are already seeing that with the responses you are getting now vs whe you last asked. Besides, your prices are very competitive even with a 3% adder. And where can one get your "sage advice" elsewhere? That has to be worth more than 3%.

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PostPosted: August 16, 2020, 8:16 pm 
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Joined: July 29, 2006, 9:10 pm
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Location: Oregon, usually
JPS Europa wrote:
We sort of know Jack and all of my transactions have been painless, so I dont mind sending a check. I have to admit that Paypal is just so easy...I use it all the time with money going both ways. Jack, can we do it both ways so that we don't forget how to sign our names?
I'm getting fonder of PayPal myself. They do an excellent job of making it transparent and easy for the buyer, including that like all credit cards, the transactions are paid for by the seller. Credit cards are so much a part of 21st Century business practices that pretty much every retailer nowadays factors it in to their prices.
BHRmotorsport wrote:
I don't know how much extra PayPal transactions cost and don't really care because of the simplicity and security of using it.
In theory, they charge me 2.9% (plus thirty cents per transaction), but in practice it's a little over 3% (because if you add that 2.9% to the invoice, they charge 2.9% on that extra 2.9%, and then another 2.9% on that extra 2.9% of 2.9%, etcetera etcetera), and that 3% is the difference between the IRS calling Kinetic Vehicles a business or a hobby.

I think I'll see how a 3% charge for credit cards goes over, but leave the option of checks on the table. I'll try it for a while. Folks may like the convenience, and hey, it is the 21st Century already.

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PostPosted: August 16, 2020, 11:53 pm 
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Joined: December 1, 2013, 10:48 pm
Posts: 72
Location: Atlanta GA
3% isn’t going to be a deal breaker to most people. Hell nuts and bolts come out to 3% of the build cost

I’ve always enjoyed buying from Jack and would find a way to do business with him regardless of payment methods. But as my late uncle once said- never make it hard for someone to give you money!


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PostPosted: August 17, 2020, 7:56 am 
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Joined: January 2, 2009, 1:45 pm
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Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Another factor ....

Jack is in some ways the only game in town, so whatever he offers for terms is what we accept.

I have two excellent suppliers for ice boat hardware, both US-based. One ONLY accepts cash or cheques, while the other accepts cash, cheques or PayPal. Either one gets used for planned purchases. Guess which one gets used for short-fuse purchases.

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Isuzu Pickup/SR20DE, +401 COLD frame
Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=11601


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