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I am considering two used Seven replicas. One is a Brunton Super Stalker with a "locker" differential, registered as a 1962 Lotus. The other is registered as a 2006 WCM Ultralite S2k with WRX limited slip diff.

This is what I plan to do with my Seven replica and questions/considerations i have on my mind:

- Take a week long trip at least once a year, and plenty of long wknds on backroads. I used to play in the Smokey Mountains a lot on my touring bike and wish to return.

- Occasional trackday/HPDE. I know both cars will spank the average car on the track with a decent driver, but given the same driver, which car is going to put in a faster lap time? I know it is common for the Stalkers to go from 15 (or 16?) in wheels to 13in slicks on the track. Is it common to do that for the WCM Ultralite S2k as well?

WCM Ultralite S2k:
Horsepower 240 @ 8300 rpm
Torque 153 lb-ft @ 7500 rpm
1240 lbs

Brunton Super Stalker:
250hp @ 5200 rpm
290tq @ 3600 rpm
1550 lbs

More torque w/ the Stalker, but less weight with the WCM. Which wins out in a straight line?

The differentials are a little bit confusing:

WCM Ultralite S2k- From the WCM website: "Subaru WRX with Limites Slip centers, hubs and axles. 10 bars IRS differential."
Brunton Super Stalker- From the owner: "Detroit TrueTrac differential."

From what I can research, the TrueTrac is a "locker" differential, not a true LSD (?). From my reading, the locker only works going straight. You really want an LSD for track days. 1-way, accel. 1.5 - accel, some decel. 2-way - both. Is my research correct? Is the TrueTrac really only good for drag racing?

- Weather protection. The car does not need to protect me from the elements necessarily. I'm used to wearing rain gear and I plan on wearing a helmet/ear plugs. But.. the cars needs to just run well in the rain, have drain holes in the floor, and have (vinyl?) seats, dash and cockpit that will be up to the task.

- Tank range over 250 miles while cruising would be nice. The Stalker runs with 3.42 gears and the WCM S2k Ultralite runs with 4.44 rear end. Both have 10gal tanks.

- Cockpit room. I recently sat in a local Stalker. My GF was fine in the passenger seat, but at 5-10, 190lbs, my legs were cramped. The owner was 5-7, 5-8, so I'm betting the foot pedals have some room to move back. I keep hearing of all these big guys fitting in Stalkers just fine...hrmmm. Would anyone say the WCM Ultralite S2k is bigger/smaller in leg room?

- Luggage. This is something neither car has I've come to find. I want to take a passenger on my trips. I like this design: The Birkin SUV, but the other option is the car on the left (It's a stalker, don't know who owns it, but I screen-captured it from a video I saw):


- Reliability. My gut gives the reliability factor to the WCM Utralite S2k's drivetrain, but if the super-charged GM engine in the Super Stalker goes, they are cheap to replace. The Super Stalker look cheaper to replace parts if need be overall, but I kinda think the engine will be stout/reliable too. The Super Stalker is easier to get more power out of as it is already forced induction (not likely going to want more).

- Community. The Brunton owners have a private forum, but at least they have one. They also have the yearly get-together down in the Smokeys called the "Ambush." I'm not aware of a user community w/ the WCM owners or get-togethers. Anyone know of any? I always appreciated the riding community.

Yes, I know it's a lot of thoughts in one post, but I don't want to get this wrong. I miss motorcycling a ton.. the sites I saw, the people I met etc., and this is my way to get it back. Cheers!

To me it's a no brainer for the Ultralite. I may ruffle some feathers by pointing it out, but the stalker is a performance car built from pickup truck parts. That "locker" is a truck diff because the stalker has a big ol heavy truck solid rear axle while the Ultralite has a lightweight IRS. Drive both of them over "real roads" and you'll see there is no comparison in terms of ride quality. (due mostly to the heavy unsprung rear truck axle) As for cockpit room, they're both going to be cramped, they're supposed to be. The Stalker has an edge in the looks dept and can handle very well on smooth surfaces so I'm not picking on them because I don't like them.

No offense but to me this is like comparing Rosie Odonnel to Jessica Simpson. I don't get it. You may get better feedback over on the usa7s site where many users own both of the vehicles you are asking about. You don't need to be part of an "exclusive" community unless you own a Stalker. (even then it's optional) Comments like mine about the "truck parts" above is why they keep it so exclusive. The owners seem to prefer to be well insulated from criticism, even when it's fair.

Disclaimer: I've never driven either car, merely read reports and impressions by those who have. Other opinions loosely based on first hand experience driving pick-em-up trucks and the Honda S2000. Additionally the opinions expressed above do not necessarily reflect those of a composed,rational well adjusted invidual.

***zips up flame suit***

Welcome to the site stranger

It's a win-win either way...both are fantastic cars with fantastic performance potential.

Since they are pretty similar in power, my main determining factors would be:
- Build quality: Based on the 2 you are looking at I think the Ultralite wins this catagory. Ultralite.
- NA engine vs. FI: Weight, simplicity and cooling after a hard track run all say get the NA Stook powered 7. Ultralite.
- Availabity: One is in Ohio and ready to buy right now...the other is not. Ultralite.
- Weight: 300+ lbs is a HUGE difference in a car that is under 1500lbs. MPG, acceleration, cornering, consumables like brakes/tires - all improved in the lighter WCM. Ultralite.

As far as your other concerns:
- Any 7 is going to have bare minimum space for luggage and touring. There's no reason to choose either car over the other in this catagory. Both will have the same small space above the fuel cell, both will be able to tow a little trailer if needed, both will have similar space in the passanger compartment.
- There are plenty of 7 gatherings that include all owners. Yes it's nice that Brunton has their little community, but is it any different than the numerous USA7s.org gatherings of Caterham, Lotus, WCMs, Birkin, Superformance cars?

-Ryan

I fit comfortably enough in Dennis Brunton's yellow/black car & I'm about 6' 1.5" and 205 lb. My left elbow seemed likely to collide with the top of the frame member. Dennis' suggestion was to move the steering wheel forward a bit from the position he decided to place the wheel. With that change I think I would be happy with the comfort. I prefer downward sloping & round cross-section cockpit side tubes like the original 7 and the Ultralite... Maybe if the Stalker were built that way I wouldn't have the elbow clearance problem.

I prefer the way the front of he Stalker looks and the way the rear of the Ultralite looks... Maybe you could build a 50/50 car

Ultralight

They should each have a very different character based on all the differences in suspension and drive train. I'd recommend driving them both, comparing the assembly and fit & finish between the cars and making your decision from there. It's always possible that one of the cars won't quite measure up the way you expect it to.

Yo!
I've got half an answer for ya... Mainly because I don't know 'zackly what happened to CMC there near "the end".

If you're at a track day and have an "unfortunate incident" and manage to bend some important part of a Stalker, you can get on the phone, call Denis and he'll ship you one right out. If you bend up the Ultralight... Well, that's the part I don't know. Are they still around? Still making spares, etc?

Other'n that, I'd agree with Erioshi, go drive 'em both and let the seat of your pants decide! (Oh, and ask the GF too...)

HTH, just my .02, YMMV, no goats were harmed in the making of this message...

JDK

Thanks for the info GonzoRacer, but I thought CMC stood for Champion Motorcar Company in AL, who does indeed look to be out of business, but the builder of the WCM Ultralite S2k is World Class Motorsports (http://www.wcmultralite.com/ based out of TX. Are the two companies related in some way?

Ooops.... My bad, wrong car... Please ignore my last post...

Well, maybe I should change it to, "Find out how hard it is to get replacement parts for the two of them."

That's why I'm building my own frame... Wasn't smart enough to pick out a kit... Signing off now...

I think the Ultralite for all of the above reasons. The only downsides are that the Ultralite is a bit smaller inside and parts are a bit harder to come by (and more expensive).

I see you've been busy :
USA1s.com
Lotustalk.com

Trying to gather as much info as possible. Some forums have been more welcoming that others.

"lsd" can mean a lot of things to different people. ..
there are 2 primary methods of control, speed limited and torque limited and 2 methods of operation, open until closed and closed until open. there are a few other ways of doing things but this is the basics.
dry plate clutch type is solid until the torque variance between sides exceeds its preset limits then it functions as an open diff.
viscous clutch type functions as an open diff until speed variance between axles causes the fluid(heres the viscous part) and plates to heat up from the friction of slipping past each other and swelling gradually creating a solid axle.
gear type is open until the tordue variance between sides exceeds a preset spring tension forcing the gears to push, together basically but i simply possibly too much, then it functions as a solid diff. there is also a gear pump type (dana35/44 and nvg147) that functions similarly. not common but interesting none the less.
"detroit locker" type functions as open until wheel speed variance exceeds a preset limit then it "locks", a very harsh actuation usually. most useful in low speed low traction conditions imhop.

having now hopefully not confused you, i have found the gear type such as the detroit true trac to be my choice. not notchy or chirpy in operation so it doesn't have the bad habits of a locker, especially important on a damp track and capable of keeping my bad habits under some level of control.

Thanks oldejack,

I mispoke a bit. From the owner of the Super Stalker:

"locker" is rather like "kleenex" in some regard, the copies of the "detroit locker" are sometimes called "lunchbox lockers" nowadays to differentiate between the original detroit brand and aftermarket copies among jeep ond truggie drivers.
auburn is another manufacturer of a gear type limited slip but not theirs aren't rebuildable like the eaton/detroit and torsen branded units are.
just don't let anyone sell you a lincoln locker, you'll hate it