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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: August 10, 2014, 10:01 pm 
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Doing the Lord's work during the day meant the Lord helped me this evening.

The big issue I have at the moment is space. I need a spot to put the car so I can work on it so I've been cleaning the shop to try to get to the place that I can move the 280Z out of the place of honor and get the Stalker on the line of scrimmage.

The I also need to get the Z near the front door so I can more easily roll it out when someone comes along & buys it. Know any Z folk? My loss is their gain.


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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: August 11, 2014, 4:43 am 
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carguy123 wrote:
Cheapo, you're starting to creep me out. Have the pod people invaded China? If not you're probably having to stay up all night to write those posts as they go totally against your nature.



No Mate, it's all up my alley actually, I was always a good writer at school and later wrote resumes and references for many friends and family, and that's "wrote" as in literal expression, eg. pen and paper. Then many years of running my own businesses, especially now in 'report heavy' China, means I still get to write a lot - oh joy.

I may have gone too far though and feel somewhat like a goat now, but then, I have been that way since I was a kid.


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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: August 11, 2014, 9:29 am 
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The voice of reason
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I have been that way since I was a kid.
:lol:

I learned this story when I was a kid, it's the oldest story in my family.

Seems the farm billy goat was prone to head butting my great granddad or great-great granddad ( and I should clear this up before it's too late ). Well he tried once too often. So in a rather bad mood my great granddad walked over to the nearby horse wagon and proceeded to prominently bend over. As he did this the goat bolted at him,. He reached down and lifted the drawbar on the front of the wagon and the goat hit it so hard it killed him on the spot.

I was struck by this and a couple of mentions of being thrown by a horse, just how difficult day to day life was in those days. Without any real medicine simple daily life work could end in injuries that would affect you and your family for a generation or more.

Billy goats are basically made for head butting, for him to kill himself in this way, I can only imagine how hard that would be to a person. Not something you would laugh off I don't think.

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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: August 11, 2014, 10:04 am 
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What a pity about the frame. More or less a complete lack of thought. They could have had a great car with the right tires. Going wider in the back is just not likely to have helped anything at all, making a tire a 2" wider doesn't magically make you find traction, it reduces the load by a corresponding amount, which reduces the friction etc.

You're doing the right thing to consider how to repair it and also maybe fix or improve the roll cage for your needs. It's all one picture.

The various organization's rules for roll cages have trouble with tube frame cars. For instance their is no point to attaching the cage to the "floor" and no one would expect or maybe even approve such a thing. That doesn't mean you should just weld cage tubes anywhere on a space frame though. On your car the choice was made to attach the front roll hoop to the top rail and not where that rail is braced. It made the bodywork easier. There isn't much need for a separate dash hoop.

Putting the front hoop where the node in front of the dash hoop is would be nice. A little gusset to tie the tubes together would be good too. Then put in a cross tube for the dash. You could narrow the scuttle a bit and put it right up against the front of the hoop.

Original size rear wheels and tires would be the easiest and lowest risk way forward. Past that you could look very carefully at how Cheapracer is doing the Largo rear end. Once you get to bigger frame changes though you should just buy a Largo and use this one for extensive practice...

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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: August 11, 2014, 11:13 am 
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horizenjob wrote:
Once you get to bigger frame changes though you should just buy a Largo and use this one for extensive practice...


This will end up being a "community car". I have a son and 2 son-in-laws that like to drive, also my daughters and wife like to dabble at autocrossing, although they only do it occasionally, so the goal is to build this and then begin on my middie.

I'm really quite surprised at some of the, what I call, poor engineering choices I see in several parts of the frame. BUT since they build a large number of these I wonder if they really are as bad as I'm perceiving them?

BUT it's my head on the line here so I'm going to make some changes. I'll post some pics of the things I'm talking about later today.

So far Brunton has not gotten back to me on several questions I have about taking over this build, but it's still not quite lunch time where they are.

I am really hoping they have some sort of suspension data base to show the results of each adjustment they've given the builder. I'd sure like to know the base line and where to begin with the adjustments plus what effects each adjustment makes without having to resort to VSUP or some other program. You'd think they'd have experimented at each setting and have a positive effect or else they wouldn't keep building them with these adjustments. I don't know maybe I'm asking too much of a company, but that's how I'd do it.

I'm still cleaning and not really working on the chassis yet, but I want to get whatever build data I can from them before I go to cutting.

They also don't seem to have a forum for members or an easy way for them to communicate with customers. The web says one is coming, but it ain't here as of this moment.

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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: August 11, 2014, 11:29 am 
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I'm really quite surprised at some of the, what I call, poor engineering choices I see in several parts of the frame. BUT since they build a large number of these I wonder if they really are as bad as I'm perceiving them?


Well, "Perfect is the enemy of good enough"....

Understanding that, and then making good tradeoffs on where you spend your time and effort are basically key to actually producing a good product. You could easily quadruple the time to assemble and weld a frame together and who would really pay for the extra labor?

The fact that the factory is slow on getting back to you with regards to a product of theirs that someone has very nearly sawed in half on purpose - it's just not surprising. There is no upside for them in this.

If the have the same holes in the upper and lower suspension mounts, maybe it's mostly for ride height and perhaps a little tire size variation too.

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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: August 11, 2014, 11:57 am 
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horizenjob wrote:
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The fact that the factory is slow on getting back to you with regards to a product of theirs that someone has very nearly sawed in half on purpose - it's just not surprising. There is no upside for them in this.



At this point they have no idea the chassis has been modified.

I wasn't really complaining too much about them not getting back to me much, as I said it was only about lunch time out there.

But I was complaining about the lack of a forum or an easy way to trade information on building the cars.

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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: August 11, 2014, 12:32 pm 
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carguy123 wrote:

But I was complaining about the lack of a forum or an easy way to trade information on building the cars.


Get in contact with as many owners as you can and request a sub-forum here for Stalker car owners.


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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: August 11, 2014, 2:44 pm 
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I called Stalker again and this time I got Glen and he was very helpful.

I am sending him pics of what I've got so he can help me fill in the gaps. He too thought they must have just bought the wrong rims.

They do have a owners only forum and he's going to put me on that.

Getting the data from them and getting on the forum means I ought to be able to gather info quickly enough that once I have the shop cleaned and stuff moved around to get the car into the best spot to work on it, I'll be ready to go.

Now I just need to get the rest of the brakes. They only gave me brakes for the front axle. Since we didn't notice and they've already got my money I'm hoping that's not an issue.

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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: August 11, 2014, 8:55 pm 
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Glen is a good guy, we chit-chat at autocrosses whenever he comes up here to play. If you got a "hot" question for him, let me know and I can contact him via FaceBook.
:cheers:

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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: August 11, 2014, 11:18 pm 
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Glen got me all set up on the forum and is getting me the parts list and access to a Google drive which will show me their assembly process and show me what's missing. I'm definitely going to get all of their parts for things like steering rack tie downs, etc. That can save so much time not trying to figure it out and then trying to get rid of bumpsteer and get some Ackerman.

He also had some unkind words about the guys who cut the chassis at that particular point and he's worried it's going to bend under it's own weight. He'd be surprised how strong it still is. Not driving around on strong, but moving around strong. I'm definitely going to check the chassis for flatness when i start welding it back together.

Now to get back to my cleaning. It really sux to have it, see it and not really be able to do anything to it.

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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: August 19, 2014, 11:45 pm 
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I've been busy, honestly, but I've had a picture issue so I haven't been able to post any.

Somehow my wife found a way to triplicate my photo library 3 times and it ate up all my memory so I couldn't download the pics to the computer so I could post them.

I should have that issue resolved later tonight so I can post then.

Life has been busy so while I've had progress, just not as much as I'd have liked to have. I have the engine sitting in the chassis and my grandson's made me a good Vroom, vroom video.

Our 45th wedding anniversary is this Saturday and I am throwing a surprise party for my wife with as many people as I could find who were actually at the wedding plus new friends and of course family. It's real tough to do this on the sly when any and every purchase on a debit card or credit card can be accessed within minutes on her computer.

I'm going to do 45 years in 45 minutes in story & song, how do you practice with your wife in the next room?

I've also been working on my son's wedding car (his wedding is in 3 weeks!). It was looking good and suddenly developed a squeal that I couldn't track down as it seemed to move around and belt dressing did nothing to alleviate it even for a minute so that I could pinpoint it. I was getting worried that the noise was pulley bearings going out.

I had my grandkids over for the past 4 days (their mom is a teacher and she had to start school a week before they do) so I put them to work helping me track it down.

They got to learn all about pulleys (and how they were the most dangerous part of an engine), nuts, bolts, SAE vs. Metric, thread pitch, drills, taps & dies. I finally realized a hidden bolt on the alternator was missing and therefore all our adjustments were doing nothing. Of course I had no bolt to fit so we had to go searching for something that did. This lead to seeing just how long and how much work it can take to just find a bolt to fit and then replace it. It ended up costing about $60 and 7-8 hours.

While the bolt was missing it buggered up the adjuster bolt and the block it was in so that's where most of the money went, buying a metric tap & die set. I'd have sworn I had one, but all of mine were SAE.

We also got to compare and contrast modern single belt systems to older multiple belt systems and they got to see how if the Miata's alternator pulley had gone out or thrown the belt we'd still be able to drive, but with the new systems we just hoped we could get stopped along side the road quickly enough.

Then since we had the naked Stalker and naked Z we talked about the different types of suspensions suspensions, how they worked and alignments. I showed them why you wanted certain adjustments and how to make them. And then of course we talked about the costs which led to brake costs and tire costs.

My 14 year old grandson thinking of course that he'd soon get a car, finally asked "Where does all the money come from to keep the cars running?"

He didn't like my answer of "From the job you're going to have to get to be able to afford a car!" He wanted the car, but hadn't realized there was a price to pay other than purchasing it.

I'll have pics tomorrow. Scouts honor.

BTW I found out one issue with inboard shocks - they are in the way for slotting in the engine. They have to be removed before the engine can come in at the correct angle.


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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: August 20, 2014, 12:51 am 
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Today it seems our country finally went metric. Wen to Home Depot for a couple of 1/2" bolts.They had 20 ( I counted) drawers of metric hardware and 3 drawers of SAE, 2 were for grade 8 and one was for grade 5.They do still sell crap sea hardware and some galvanized stuff.

Boy 45 years, congrats! I'm guessing 35 years would make you just as happy, but they don't let you unwind those clocks... Have a good party!

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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: September 4, 2014, 9:52 pm 
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It's just about damn time for an update and some pics. The wedding car is finished and really sparkles. The wedding is this Saturday. The car is basically new all over so it should be as trouble free as a new car which means he won't need to work on it and can come over and help me here.

His fiance & I put together an iBook of over 80 pics and it turned out phenomenal! I start with his first Miata and progress to his second and since car #2 and this car look almost alike I begin working in some pics of the new car and then "notice" my mistake and tell him that these must not be of his old car, but of his new car and then transition over to them.

I finish the book off with a teaser shot of an M Spec Brunton and the chassis sitting in my shop with the engine in it. The book will haunt him the whole time he's on his honeymoon. They are spending 10 days in Spain so the book is all he'll have and knowing my son he'll look at it everyday and want to get his hands on both cars.

First let me post 1-2 pics of the finished wedding car and then I'll post some pics of the Stalker as it sits right now.


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 Post subject: Re: STALKER -ish build
PostPosted: September 4, 2014, 9:58 pm 
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Now for build pics.

I haven't had loads of time to do any work, but I did get the engine into the chassis.

Glen is of course encouraging me to use an LSx, but at the same time he's got to fit a Honda engine in one for a 2 liter racing series in Europe so my work will help him out.

I haven't accessed the Google Drive with all the build instructions yet to see placement of the GM engines, but I stabbed the engine in as far back as I could put it and then have sent pics off to Stalker to see how that compares to the V8 and if they see any issues.

Since I'm probably not making my body I have to work around where it hits.

The thought at the moment is to use the stock motor mounts. You can see the cast aluminum piece on the motor and it mates up to a very nice (and expensive) fluid filled piece. It doesn't allow the motor to move much at all, but does dampen out a lot of the NVH. I've seen it done on another Locost and it made a world of difference in the vibrations.


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