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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: August 19, 2009, 7:11 pm 
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Location: Denver, CO
So I am interested in a Seven kit that is an accurate reproduction of a S3 real lotus.
Therefore I am not really interested in larger frames, excessive FG bodywork ala Westfield or a car that only ir vaguely related to a seven like the Deman. Please take no offense Westy or Deman folks!
Basically i'd like to build a car that looks to be an authentic Lotus Seven albeit with a Toyota 4AGE and T50 for drivetrain.

Anyone know of such a kit that is available in the USA?

Thanks in advance guys

Jay "RZ"


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PostPosted: August 19, 2009, 8:15 pm 
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Let me preface by saying I don't know what I'm talking about, BUT

I did help a guy unpack a real one back in the day. I also moved the engine around BY MYSELF and this makes me wonder can you build an accurate 7 and find an engine that will fit in the space allotted? Will the Toyo engine?

Plus isn't the T50 tranny a lot bigger than the 3/4(?) speed one that came in the original?

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PostPosted: August 19, 2009, 9:29 pm 
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I would think that Caterham and Birkin qualify. Not so sure if it's easy to get a Birkin here, but there are a few.

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PostPosted: August 19, 2009, 10:25 pm 
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The Leitch is an unabashed copy of the Lotus Seven, and in fact I'm surprised that Caterham hasn't sued them. Possibly Barry Leitch had an agreement with Colin Chapman? This one sure looks a lot like a Caterham:

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PostPosted: August 19, 2009, 10:36 pm 
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How close do you want it ?

Both the Birkin and Caterham have drifted from the original S3, not in a bad sense, the front suspension is now a true double wishbone set up. I know that in South Afrika they race the Birkins with the 20V 4AGE

If you want to know how the 4AGE and T50 would fit in a S3 chassis check of Rod Lotus S3 replica,
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=3137

That was good enought to convince me it could be done. But in my case I'm not gonna be building from a kit. It will be scratch built with some components being bought from Caterham. First I need to finish my track Locost... It's getting there, but not fast enought.

Cheers,

Fred


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PostPosted: August 19, 2009, 11:34 pm 
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I don't know what version I helped unpack, but there's no way a larger engine would have fit. I'm not really sure 2 people could really fit in there without some real cooperation like one shifting while the other turned the wheel.

The Caterhams and Birkins are giants by comparison. Were there versions prior to S3? I don't know my Lotus history.

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PostPosted: August 20, 2009, 12:10 am 
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There were 2 versions before the S3, S1 and S2, I think all 3 had the same dimentions it just a question of numbers of tubes making up the Chassis, S2 and S3 are identical size wise.

From what I gathered, The Birkin and Caterham started off as knockoff of S3's i.e. same sizes, some changes have been made, externally the chassis have stayed the same dimentions but some minor tweeks inside have changed. The engine bay has basically stayed the same, Both have made the Zetec fit, and it's a larger engine than the 4AGE. Catherham introduce the SV chassis i.e. S5 chassis which is more in the Locost size, wider, longer and higher. The incredible CSR is based on the S5 Chassis.

The 4AGE is a small engine so I'm not surprised it fits, ok it's huge compared to an A motor, but very small compared to modern powerplant. The T50 also is a small transmision, I haven't compared it to the 4 speed, and I wouldn't be surprise if the T50 was sligtly bigger. Keep in mind that Caterham has offered a T9 and some derivatives in their S3 chassis.

Hmmm 2 people in a Se7en hmmm you better be in love :lol:
Seriously, your right there not much space, 36.75 inches between chassis rails vs the 40 in the book chassis, 16 inch for the seat if it's a bench, yup it's gonna be cramped if your 2, perfect if your alone... Personally it's the proportions that are right with the Lotus vs the Locost. Also if you look closer at the Lotus S3 Chassis you see all the tubes forming one unit vs the Locost were tube are simply added. Yes the Locost chassis is easier to build, but the Lotus-early Caterham are things of beauty.

It's probably at the bellhousing that some issue could arise as the footspace is fairly limited. Maybe Rod aka cs3tcr could enligthened us.

here is his 4AGE in his S3, this is one of his pic in his tread.
Image

Cheers,

Fred


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PostPosted: August 20, 2009, 12:26 am 
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Sorry I forgot to mention the Leitch from Earley Motorsports. There are pictures of his car on this site and he posts here... :oops:


This is off topic but curious if those 4AGE have the same bore spacing and block height as the crossflows?

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PostPosted: August 20, 2009, 9:21 am 
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A friend of mine has a Lotus S3 and his used to have a 4AGE in it so its do-able. He's now got a built Ford crossflow Kent engine in there.


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PostPosted: August 20, 2009, 10:27 am 
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A mechanic friend put a Cosworth BDA in a Caterham. That's sort of why I was asking about the size of the 4AGE block. The Cosworth BDA is built on a Ford crossflow block (basically). They come with dry-sump though...

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PostPosted: August 20, 2009, 12:44 pm 
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I've got an engine on the engine stand, being put back together to go into the locost.
I'll take some measurements and post them in the 4AGE engine tread like I was suppose to :oops:

Image

Fred


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PostPosted: August 20, 2009, 1:44 pm 
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To the OP, have you sat in a real (Lotus-built) Seven? Unless you're the same size as Chapman (seriously) you probably won't fit.

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PostPosted: August 20, 2009, 1:55 pm 
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I have sat in a Birkin and found it very tight.

Alternativey, my book chassis is roomy. Albeit, I have no seats at the moment :roll: . I'm 5'8 and 185#

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PostPosted: August 20, 2009, 3:20 pm 
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You could get a Birkin from Texas Motor Works www.texasmotorworks7.com/ or from Richard Wyly in Canmore Alberta 403 609 8687 email glassguy100@gmail.net. Richard imports the kits and can build them with Duratec motors.


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PostPosted: August 20, 2009, 9:45 pm 
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Image

I've sat in this car and pretended to drive it. I am 5-11 and about 190#. I could fit ok. Not sure how it would be to drive - not much room for feet, not much room between the shift knob and the dash.

This car is a Lotus 7 America and has a BMC A-series engine - it fits well even with 2 carbs.


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