LocostUSA.com

962
I know what you mean about CF prices. There are a couple of canoe and kayak places selling CF or CF Kevlar boats. The ones under $2000 are glass with one layer of CF

Wilderness systems offered a limited edition all CF Commander a couple of years ago. It was truly beautiful... and cost $5000
They sold 1

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Too much week, not enough weekend.

OOPS I did it again
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17496

Blood Sweat and Beers
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=15216

I signed a contract to build 10 FIA WEC GT class wings out of carbon fiber .
the material cost to me is around 700 dollars each wing .
material cost with the place I order from has the more yards you buy the lower the cost becomes .
so being a three /four man shop I picked up 25 yards and another shop may buy say 100 yards at a time .
even buying in very large quantity the price still would not be low enough to build and then sell a hole nose for the pricing stated .

I did 1 test wing out of fiberglass to see how the molds were .
the materials just for the fiberglass at cost were $259.26 dollars .

I actually thought the $500 per fender were out of line. Can buy them from the UK for less than 1/2 the price with shipping. The $1500 for the 442 nose I thought was crazy.

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Steve

My build : http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtop ... 35&t=17160

MGB/GT V8 5.0L. viewtopic.php?f=36&t=20782

I use carbon fiber to reinforce iceboat runner bodies: I am typically using 9 oz 45-45 biaxial and 12 oz unidirectional: small quantity CF prices are about $45 to $55 CDN per yard. So those prices for fenders or noses don't surprise me. Carbon fiber materials costs for building car fenders or hoods could get expensive quickly, not to mention epoxy, or worse yet, the consumables used in infusion vacuum bagging. Add labour, overhead and profit margin .....

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Warren
Isuzu Pickup/SR20DE, +401 COLD frame
Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=11601

How many layers would you typically use for a strong component?

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Steve

My build : http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtop ... 35&t=17160

MGB/GT V8 5.0L. viewtopic.php?f=36&t=20782

How many layers for a 'strong' component? Depends on what you mean by 'strong'? What are the loads, and what is the design criterion: stiffness or strength?

The criterion for a hood on a car might be to keep the rain out, and enough stiffness to minimize aerodynamic distortion. I have seen a video of the making of a two-layer CF hood, but it also had stiffening elements on the underside. A chassis would also be stiffness-driven, although there would be strength criteria in way of suspension and drivetrain attachment points. My iceboat runners have a bending stiffness requirement and I have typically used 36 oz. of uni (3 layers) and 9 oz. of biaxial over a Baltic birch core, laid up in a mechanical press. The result is stronger than it needs to be, but probably still not stiff enough.

Most lower-cost automotive carbon applications are non-structural, including bodywork which generally just carries aero loads (which aren't trivial, but stiffness probably isn't that critical, aside from wing mounts). If you wanted to do the engineering, you could design and build some rather spiffy carbon fiber brackets (for example), but it is hard to beat the simplicity of mild steel, especially if the part is carrying loads via fasteners, in which case shear loads in way of the fasteners may well be the driving design criterion.

Carbon fiber is a neat material for small parts that look cool, but I would hesitate using it in critical failure components of a car without some rational analysis, or at least some full-scale testing (like the Australian chassis torsion test). The prospect of failure is too chilling, from both injury and materials cost perspectives.

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Warren
Isuzu Pickup/SR20DE, +401 COLD frame
Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=11601

I really like the idea of CF front fenders and dash. My first 2 ideas anyway.

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Steve

My build : http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtop ... 35&t=17160

MGB/GT V8 5.0L. viewtopic.php?f=36&t=20782

the cost for CF is pretty much the same around the world .
FG carbon cloth just like fiberglass cloth has different weaves and offered in different OZ .
this like FG effects the cost .
with most real Full CF hoods we do 3 layers of CF .
but it's as warren stated things like inner structure , shape and so on have to do with how many layers are needed .


last season I got talked into building this boat it's a 32 foot trimaran .
the boat is made out of all carbon fiber the cost of materials along was over 200K .
4 people can pick the boat off the trailer true weight I don't know ?but it's dam light !

I'm working a this guys Honda drag car right now .
if you want to see who low cost composite panels are and quality of them check out the photos.
this CO also offers them in so called CF . it's one layer of CF over FG using the same molds as he does for the FG only panels .
you like the fitment ? how about the quality . pieces are falling off the panels .
the car owner did not like the price I gave him to make the panels my self so he bought the two fenders and front bumper for 1000 dollars from another CO. he is having us do the install of the panels .
after we got the panels on the car that are made to fit 10" wide tires we found out they in no way are wide enough to fit the tires . we now have to widen them 3" to cover the tires .
the down side is the customer is now all pissed off ! not at me but just at every thing !
because it's a time and material job he has spent more then if he just paid me to mold the fenders and bumper my self . the customer is now out of money so now I have to find every way to cut costs to get the things fitted on the car and look like some thing .

when you buy low cost panels this is what you end up with ! low cost total crap !

962: It sounds like you have plenty of work as it is, but times may not always be so flush. If you ever give a website another go, just find a nice way of saying what you told us. Something along the lines of: "To all customers and potential customers: I have very little time to spend talking shop, giving multiple bids, discussing design choices, techniques or what have you. My reputation speaks for itself, so I shouldn't have to convince you of our quality. When you contact me, please have your homework done in advance and know specifically what you're after. If we have a history of working together, I can devote more time to the planning end of your project, but if not, please respect my limited time availability. I don't mean to be arrogant, but more time talking means less time making, and you know which one I prefer....

Also, quote high! It's always much easier to be magnanimous and give money back than to ask for more.

it is a good idea to write a little some thing like that !
I do think about doing another site from time to time ?

962porsche:
$800 for a carbon nose sounds about right if it is resin infusion and not prepreg.