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 Post subject: Alternative floor idea
PostPosted: September 18, 2017, 8:13 am 
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Joined: May 22, 2017, 7:36 am
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Could something like this:

Image

Link:

http://www.mtmfg.com/part/view/1946-197 ... gKHBPD_BwE

be modified and cut to fit the floor of our build. I'm seeing rigidity built in, plus a local VW shop has them on the shelf, therefore no shipping.

Thoughts?


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PostPosted: September 18, 2017, 10:21 am 
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could work. Then again, the subject of what would work in the floor has been the subject of much discussion over they years (along with carbon fiber construction, steel versus aluminum, etc etc).

Since I'm not trying to be a competitive car, I just used 16 ga steel and welded teh !@#$%@#$% outta it. Anything that comes thru THAT probably has earned the right to do damage to the soft squishy parts inside.

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PostPosted: September 18, 2017, 11:48 am 
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The pre-fabbed floors are a little pricey, no? As Tim mentioned above steel works fine (or aluminum) in sheet form. The problem with aluminum is the fastening which requires riveting. Steel can be welded. The major problem is what's called "oil canning". Any large section of flooring needs to be stiffened to prevent this. You can add stiffeners or some form of grooved seam.

Roy

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PostPosted: September 18, 2017, 11:55 am 
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Any information of the grooved seams, any way to do this yourself? I can image the tool for doing it, I just can't place/name it.


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PostPosted: September 18, 2017, 4:23 pm 
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Last year a truck cut me off and forced me over the median strip. The car high-centered on some concrete protrusions, skidded across, and came out relatively unscathed. I was able to drive away. The 16 gauge steel floor got pushed up a bit, but nothing came through. Thinner gauge might've worked as well, but I was really thankful for the extra weight of the 16 gauge.


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PostPosted: September 18, 2017, 10:11 pm 
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aidandebradney wrote:
Any information of the grooved seams, any way to do this yourself? I can image the tool for doing it, I just can't place/name it.


You want a bead roller to put those nice little grooves in metal, make lapped seams, etc. Harbor Freight and Woodward Fab both carry 'em. Like about anything else, you might make it yourself, or buy one of the cheap ones and modify the #$%#W$% outta it.

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PostPosted: September 18, 2017, 10:24 pm 
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Last time I looked, Harbor Freight had pulled theirs. Not in the store or in their catalog. Apparently due to some quality issues.


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PostPosted: September 18, 2017, 10:34 pm 
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geek49203 wrote:
I just used 16 ga steel and welded teh !@#$%@#$% outta it.
I don't want to be a nit picker (as proof, note that I'm not pointing out that the letters in "the" are out of order) but "!@#$%@#$%" should always be spelled out in full, as it was in this post. Abbreviating technical terms, as you did later in...
geek49203 wrote:
buy one of the cheap ones and modify the #$%#W$% outta it.
...will only confuse newcomers. #$%#W$% looks like #$#%W$% at first glance, which makes no sense at all (at least not in this context).

Also, waltj, you've used the terms "quality" and "Harbor Freight" in the same post. First warning.

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PostPosted: September 18, 2017, 10:59 pm 
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Jack,
A "quality issue " is the same as questionable quality or lack of quality. :lol:


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PostPosted: September 18, 2017, 11:10 pm 
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I'd say with those you are unlikely to have them be flat enough to secure to your frame. It's pretty much a sure thing that there is going to be a bump where you can't have a bump.
To make your own, a bead roller or planishing hammer is ideal (note: can easily make your own of either). I've used a press and wood forms to bend floor patch panels before, but it is slow and best done on small pieces. I have 050 aluminum riveted and bonded and have no "tin-canning" (where the floor pops or rattles). I think the typical locost floor is small enough, with enough cross braces to prevent most issues. I've seen trees/rock penetrate armoured steel floors before so there really is no stopping it in a worse-case scenario.

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PostPosted: September 18, 2017, 11:28 pm 
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aidandebradney wrote:
Could something like this:

Link:

http://www.mtmfg.com/part/view/1946-197 ... gKHBPD_BwE

be modified and cut to fit the floor of our build. I'm seeing rigidity built in, plus a local VW shop has them on the shelf, therefore no shipping.

Thoughts?


For the $240 to buy & the time it would take you to adapt them, I think you'd be better off with 16 gauge steel, beaded or un-beaded. It's pretty tough to put a bead in 16 gauge steel. Only expensive, commercial machines can do it and you'd spend $1,000 on a used one.

That said, it can be done by hand, with hand tools. I met a metal fabricator from Texas who does it by hand with hammers and a steel form. Here's a video of a another guy doing the inverse, by effectively "beading" over a steel form. It would be a lot of work.

Video ==> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CASaBvJtiAI

Alternately, if you have the clearance space, you could rivet or weld stiffeners onto the sheet metal used for the floor pan (undertray) like the "V" example in the graphic below. I would not use the "joist" shape under the car for obvious reasons.
Attachment:
File comment: Stiffener shapes
Trunk members.jpg
Trunk members.jpg [ 10.23 KiB | Viewed 945 times ]

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

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PostPosted: September 19, 2017, 1:43 am 
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Or....

Or if you want to relieve the 'oil canning at a very locost price' you can stitch weld your .065 steel floor then cross weld the floor pan to relieve any oil canning. Believe me this works every time. Easier than rolling beads in .065 steel.
And the neat thing about this, no one will see it!
Just my opinion


Attachments:
IMG_1550.JPG
IMG_1550.JPG [ 107.77 KiB | Viewed 939 times ]
IMG_1549.JPG
IMG_1549.JPG [ 116.52 KiB | Viewed 939 times ]

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PostPosted: September 19, 2017, 8:43 am 
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Look at the Woodard-fab bead rollers. A Locost option, but you will have to reinforce the bead roller frame to prevent it from twisting. That's probably the same issue with the HF roller.
Also there is NO-WAY to roll the floor pan w/o one or two more helpers to hold and control that large of a sheet. The welded "X" on the floor pan has a 2nd advantage in that the weld should shink as it colds and some tension to the floor. Dave W


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PostPosted: September 19, 2017, 8:52 am 
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I do like the welded X idea, totally doable solo too. Nice and simple. Now would it be preferable to to weld the X prior to installing the floor or once the floor is spot welded in?


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PostPosted: September 19, 2017, 12:37 pm 
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The cross welding is done after the floor is fully welded in place.

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'If man built it, man can fix it'
"No one ever told me I couldn't do it."
"If you can't build it safe, don't build it."

Perry's Locost Super Che7enette Build
Perry's TBird Based 5.0L Super 7 L.S.O.
Perry's S10 Super 7 The 3rd
Perry's 4th Build, The Topolino 500 (Little Mouse) Altered


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