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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: March 16, 2018, 4:27 pm 
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Location: ontario
Yes I know, spraying does a better job. I contracted my first locost to a body shop and the man did in my opinion an excellent job. Then came the time to modify the car body in question and to reflect in general about this little toy car and I wondered how many times in the future was I going to send her back to the paint shop: more alterations, flying gravel, small dents in parking? I can't spray here but I had some experience in rolling high quality paint on a steel boat that I owned and found that a product like interlux Brightside polyurethane has a significant body content and a remarkable stretchability (self leveling). I decided to make a sample to experiment and find out how good or bad I would be at this. Then I went to the car, I primed the metal with a metal primer called Zinzer, using a foam roller designed not to leave a texture. One coat, wet sanded to 400 grit. Then another coat wet sanded to 600 grit. Then I rolled the first layer of paint and the next day I wet sanded 400 grit. A good deal of the white primer appeared here and there with the green paint (my car's colour) . Another layer of green paint sanded to 400 grit, wiping the dust with a rag. Then another layer of green paint sanded to 600 grit and dusted. The final paint layer was sanded first to 600 and then to 1000 grit. At this point the entire work looked chalky. I take that what people do at this stage is to buff the paint back to a gloss. I did not go this route. Instead I rolled clear polyurethane varnish. This is the most tricky part of the project because varnish more than paint wants to run. One has to figure out the right varnish load on the roller ,minimize overlap and definitely never go over fresh varnish . I was satisfied with the results and my second locost will be done the same way. But again, I don't think that the result would compare to a spray job.

Did any of you finish your build without spraying? Why, how, etc

I will post some pictures of my first locost. It can be seen now in the finished build section under Phil's diesel to gas conversion. But I will find more detailed pictures (reduce them and post them eventually. :)

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=19178


Last edited by phil on March 18, 2018, 3:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: March 16, 2018, 6:31 pm 
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It works fine - I used Rustoleum thinned around 50/50 with Acetone. I didn't do any wet sanding but was less worried about a showroom quality job versus something that looked good from 10 feet away.

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PostPosted: March 16, 2018, 7:17 pm 
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I used Rustoleum in spray cans. With 4 fenders, a nose and a scuttle, it didn't take but a few cans. There was no extra thinner to purchase nor any tool cleanup afterwards.

Nothing wrong with your plan. Go ahead and use what you feel like. It is your car and you are building it, not us.

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PostPosted: March 17, 2018, 10:21 am 
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I realize you're talking about rolling, but here is a video on YouTube that demonstrates what you can achieve using Rustoleum spray cans. It is a LOT of physical work. The color palette is limited to what Rustoleum has, but the results are pretty darn good by anyone's standard. The guy does a demo on a car fender.

Rustoleum spray paint ==> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qPJTTRWttQ

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

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PostPosted: March 17, 2018, 11:15 am 
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My brother put a Rustoleum spray paint can on a halogen lamp to warm it before using it. It's not a bad idea for the can to be warm, but then he went inside to get something. The can exploded and launched vertically. Hard enough to go thru the cement fire code ceiling in the garage! :shock: :shock:

I think of this sometimes because he did it in my garage and there is still a small can sized hole in the ceiling. Hmmm, there might be can up there in the crawl space... :rofl:

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PostPosted: March 17, 2018, 12:15 pm 
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A friend (Tony) and I have done a lot of roll and tip application of Brightside on boats, and a little bit with 'Perfection', the International two-part product. It works well in that application. Tony built a Birkin and decided to use Brightside for paint, and first applied it with roll and tip, but couldn't get enough film thickness. He was always sanding through the top coat when colour sanding. He gave up in the end and bought a cheap Princess Auto sprayer (HF-equivalent) and sprayed the Brightsiode. He got enough film thickness that way to achieve the finish he wanted by colour sanding and buffing, which was not of the 'from 10 feet away' variety. I guess many of us expect a better finish on their cars than on their boats. Not all, but many.


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PostPosted: March 17, 2018, 1:00 pm 
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There are as many opinions, as builders. This is also an ongoing discussion on the airplane builders' sites. I have heard of builders rolling on latex, and I have seen some fairly good results with water borne, 2 part, polyurethanes. Some people are happy with their rolling results, but only you can decide what level of finish you will be happy with.
When I painted my airplane ( I used the water borne polyurethane), I went all in. Built a paint booth in my garage, bought top line equipment and ended up with a top line finish. But the price was high; I had close to 300 hrs into my paint job, and even with an exhaust system, somehow a fine mist seem to settle in the most obscure places :oops:
So when I did the 7, I decided to go with a vinyl wrap. I loved the results, loved doing it and would do it all over again (actually I am :D ). But, again there is a price to pay. All the body panels had to be made removable, because the wrap doesn't adhere well around rivets.
In the end, all options require work. It doesn't matter if you sand for hours to remove blemishes, or fabricate nut plates for the body panels or tape for spraying.

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PostPosted: March 17, 2018, 2:01 pm 
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mgkluft wrote:
So when I did the 7, I decided to go with a vinyl wrap. I loved the results, loved doing it and would do it all over again (actually I am :D ). But, again there is a price to pay. All the body panels had to be made removable, because the wrap doesn't adhere well around rivets.
Martin, how was the learning curve on doing the vinyl wrap? I'm planning a "Scotchbrite" finish on all the aluminum body panels, but will still have the fiberglass nosecone to finish. There are some vinyl wraps that could give a similar "natural aluminum" look to the nosecone, but I'm unfamiliar with the wrap process. Seems most of the cost of professional wrap jobs is in the labor, so a DIY approach has that locost appeal.

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PostPosted: March 17, 2018, 2:47 pm 
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Martin, I concur with Tom's post! Any insight you can share would be appreciated.

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PostPosted: March 17, 2018, 3:41 pm 
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Tom and Mike,
it is actually very easy, and not very expensive. I just bought the new colour for this season (I know, I'm so vain :twisted: ), and the material was about $ 250.
The material is cheap enough to do a couple of practice pieces, but it really is very straight forward. However, having said that, all the panels are quite flat, and therefore, the vinyl is easy to apply. The tricky part is holding the panels, as they are light and move easily, as you need both hands to apply the film. But it is quite manageable. Where I see the difficulty, is the nose cone. (I painted mine, as well as the fenders) These films are made for large sweeping surfaces, and I think it will be tricky to do the rad lip as it curls under. But I have watched a lot of videos, and guys have done more difficult things. It will require heat (heat gun on low) and primer for the film to stick into the recesses. There are a couple of videos online where guys are doing motorcycle gas tanks; you should be able to find those. I use the Vivvid product, and there are some videos on their web site as well.
Overall, I am super happy with doing it this way. Making 100 + tabs was a lot of extra work, but there are other benefits as well. I'm right now making a new brake light switch, as I'm not happy with the hydraulic one. Rather than crawl down into the foot well, where I would be hopelessly stuck :BH: , I just pop off the side panel, and Bob's your uncle. I'll post some pics in my build log soon.

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PostPosted: March 17, 2018, 8:59 pm 
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Warren Nethercote wrote:
A friend (Tony) and I have done a lot of roll and tip application of Brightside on boats, and a little bit with 'Perfection', the International two-part product. It works well in that application. Tony built a Birkin and decided to use Brightside for paint, and first applied it with roll and tip, but couldn't get enough film thickness. He was always sanding through the top coat when colour sanding. He gave up in the end and bought a cheap Princess Auto sprayer (HF-equivalent) and sprayed the Brightsiode. He got enough film thickness that way to achieve the finish he wanted by colour sanding and buffing, which was not of the 'from 10 feet away' variety. I guess many of us expect a better finish on their cars than on their boats. Not all, but many.



Thanks for this,
yes it takes dedication and patience to do it with brush and roller. Tony's coats were not heavy enough perhaps, maybe he used thinner. I don't. Brightside is not formulated for thinning (I think). Of course the resulting coat presents a lot of orange peel, which means a good deal of sanding to get it flat.


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PostPosted: March 18, 2018, 7:13 am 
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Hi Phil,

No, neither of us used thinner with Brightside, but even unthinned you need to roll it thin to avoid runs on vertical surfaces. Actually, a seven offers an opportunity given its flat surfaces. I get spray-gun like finishes with Brightside on my ice boat just using a quality brush but it takes forever. I position the hull so one of its plane surfaces is near horizontal and paint just that surface. The next day I rotate and paint another plane surface, and so on. Plus a second coat .... not for the impatient, especially with two-toned finishes.

The iceboat needs a total repaint this year, which I do not relish.


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PostPosted: March 18, 2018, 9:40 am 
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Phil,

Supplemental. I have found Brightside to be very temperature dependent when it comes to surface finish. Warmer is better.

When roll and tip painting my Soling topsides (all vertical or overhead surfaces) I got best results with Brightside when temperatures in my shop were about 23C. I spoke to an International tech rep and he explained that the paint was formulated recognizing that the amateur might be painting in full sun, and as a result cure would be delayed at lower temperatures (I had complained about Brightside being tacky after 12 hours when I painted some components in my basement). At normal Canadian temps you have to roll thin to avoid sag; at 23C I got away with a thicker film, got no sag AND good self-levelling.

I have cheated by warming the paint can in hot water, but it is not the same thing as a full , warm environment.

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PostPosted: March 18, 2018, 10:26 am 
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Warren Nethercote wrote:
Phil,

Supplemental. I have found Brightside to be very temperature dependent when it comes to surface finish. Warmer is better.

When roll and tip painting my Soling topsides (all vertical or overhead surfaces) I got best results with Brightside when temperatures in my shop were about 23C. I spoke to an International tech rep and he explained that the paint was formulated recognizing that the amateur might be painting in full sun, and as a result cure would be delayed at lower temperatures (I had complained about Brightside being tacky after 12 hours when I painted some components in my basement). At normal Canadian temps you have to roll thin to avoid sag; at 23C I got away with a thicker film, got no sag AND good self-levelling.

I have cheated by warming the paint can in hot water, but it is not the same thing as a full , warm environment.


Yes with high air temp the metal itself is hotter that explains the better result above 20C. I did my work around that temperature, with a reasonable paint load on the roller and using a brush in corners I managed to control sags. Over night the work was hard enough for sanding. I like the product and I believe that with hard work one can achieve paint shop quality levels. My own experience is that I have to do a better job on the last paint coat. I have a bit of orange peel on the seven. Next time I plan to get down to 1500 grit before varnish. That should do it. :)

Thanks Warren for your input.


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PostPosted: March 18, 2018, 12:12 pm 
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Phil,

Another product much like Brightside is Pettit EZPoxy. It is again a single component polyurethane, and some local users claim it self-levels, covers and lasts better than Brightside. More colours too. I have zero experience with it, so the foregoing is hearsay, but I am tempted to try it on my next project because they offer 'Fighting Lady Yellow' in their colour range. I like that colour ...

http://www.pettitpaint.com/products/top ... -easypoxy/

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