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 Post subject: Re: supercharging
PostPosted: November 9, 2017, 5:06 pm 
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Joined: October 19, 2009, 9:36 pm
Posts: 2004
Location: meadview arizona
obviously people haven't read my post.

i did say at the start of this that Arizona was a non inspection state so the check light is not a problem, i even said that when i move to Florida that is also a non inspection state.

i am not using a boost relief valve which you would have known if you had read my post, that would be an enormous air leak so nothing would be in any shape or form calibrated, i am using a diverter valve and no it won't over heat the supercharger as all the current manufacturers except Mercedes use the same system with no trouble, the supercharger is just cycling when the diverter is open.

what fuel pressure reference line, the fuel pressure is constant at 45lbs at this time but may change in the future.

when you know how to change the maf sensor specifically the max air multiplier and the max volts of the sensor limit in the pcm, then you will understand a little more than you do now.

the barometric pressure is sensed by the map not the maf and i don't have egr or the timing changes associated with it, its great living in a non inspection state, if one thing sets the mil, then you might as well have it on for a lot of things, right now its on due to a readiness monitor for the tumble flaps.

instead of saying i must do this and i can't do that, think of ways that this can be done simply.

if you think i would not use a air/fuel meter to adjust calibrations suggests to me that you have tried without one and screwed something up.

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 Post subject: Re: supercharging
PostPosted: November 9, 2017, 6:41 pm 
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Joined: September 19, 2009, 12:33 pm
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john hennessy wrote:
not speed density, if you had chosen to read my post you would know that but i guess you didn't read anything so until you do read the post stop commenting.

and just a point about comments, if you think you know more, please say what you know so we can all know what you know or just don't comment put your money where your mouth is, don't just say that i'm doing it all wrong, i have asked for you to explain why i should do it differently but no answers were forthcoming.

this is directed at Kurt and Laminar, do either of you know anything about Ford EEC-V engine management?
if you do tell me.

you have no idea what i have or haven't done, know or don't know, just like i have no idea what you know because you won't say

i will find out if it works when it's done, i don't like to post things like the above but really?

in fact i don't think i'll post about this any more as it's clearly over your heads!


What? I made half of the first 10 posts in this thread, every one of them directly answering all of the questions you had. Every time you continued to misunderstand how engines even work, I patiently explained everything. Then you lash out and accuse me of not reading what you're saying?

Best of luck. :roll: I hope your engine tuning skills are better than your reading comprehension.


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 Post subject: Re: supercharging
PostPosted: November 9, 2017, 6:59 pm 
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Joined: June 15, 2010, 8:29 am
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Location: Duxbury, MA USA
I was following this post till it got snippy...

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 Post subject: Re: supercharging
PostPosted: November 9, 2017, 7:42 pm 
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Joined: September 19, 2009, 12:33 pm
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Me too.


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 Post subject: Re: supercharging
PostPosted: November 9, 2017, 9:01 pm 
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Posts: 21
My point is, if the check engine lamp is on for fuel mixture codes, the PCM is going to *ignore* the upstream O2 sensors and revert to the base fuel maps. That would be bad.
Also, if you *do* have a 4 wire Tmap, it has nothing to do with fueling, other than an altitude check on startup.
My personal feeling is what you are attempting might work fine, since you plan to keep boost at 5 psi. there is a bit of headroom in most maf cars. You *really* need to keep the check engine light off if you can, though.

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 Post subject: Re: supercharging
PostPosted: November 10, 2017, 2:27 pm 
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Joined: October 19, 2009, 9:36 pm
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Location: meadview arizona
Laminar,

sorry if i got under your collar some what, what you posted is of interest.
yes i understand that a tune is required and am more than capable of doing that.

i do find it harsh that you would say something like "misunderstand how engines even work" if you have been where i've been and done what i've done i think you would change your mind about that statement.
for may years performance engines were my profession.

my original post sounded naive somewhat and that was intentional as i did not want to get into areas where the average reader would not understand, not wishing to "run before walking", the idea was to build it and modify it until it worked step by step, explaining in detail why each change from stock would be required not just jump in with a bunch of stuff from the get go with a lot of cash, that, you and others seemed to think was an absolute necessity and i would be wasting my time with anything but, well i know i'm getting on in years but i think i have the time to spend on this project

all of your statements may be correct but how relevant are they in this application, if i had started with a megasquirt and E85, controlled my fuel/air ratio with a map sensor, ran the boost through an intercooler and controlled boost with a dump valve then i dare say you could have been of great assistance but that's like saying " if i wanted to go there i wouldn't start from here".
sounds very turboish to me

instead, it might be better to explain how my factory pcm handled the modifications and what areas needed to be modified to suit by the addition of a tune rather than "throwing the baby out with the bath water" and get a new baby because the fist one was the wrong gender, it may require exactly that and if we reach that point where the factory pcm cannot be modified to the extent needed that will certainly be an option.
who knows whether my child born of satan's seed could be a doctor or a lawyer or if he or she will be quite happy stacking shelves at the supermarket but not be cashier material.

Rick,
thank you for your comments, you seem to understand the air/fuel scenario and the critical nature of it, i do intend to avoid any conflicts with that but the EEC-V will set a check light for many other reasons apart from fuel like no power steering pressure so i will keep an eye on it with the addition of an air/fuel meter and a wide band.
as a mater of interest my map sensor is indeed a 4 wire, and in an earlier post i posed this very question.

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 Post subject: Re: supercharging
PostPosted: November 11, 2017, 1:02 am 
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Joined: September 19, 2009, 12:33 pm
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john hennessy wrote:
all of your statements may be correct but how relevant are they in this application, if i had started with a megasquirt and E85, controlled my fuel/air ratio with a map sensor, ran the boost through an intercooler and controlled boost with a dump valve then i dare say you could have been of great assistance but that's like saying " if i wanted to go there i wouldn't start from here".
sounds very turboish to me


Reread what I wrote. I offered up options that didn't include a MAP sensor, and I even explained what Kurt meant by his post when you lashed out at him.

Quote:
instead, it might be better to explain how my factory pcm handled the modifications and what areas needed to be modified to suit by the addition of a tune
...
it may require exactly that and if we reach that point where the factory pcm cannot be modified to the extent needed that will certainly be an option.


You mention the "addition of a tune." In modern terms, that means you're purchased a tuning device and tune from a vendor to be loaded onto your factory ECU. These usually run at least $500.

I'm going to go ahead and guess that you're not planning on doing this, but instead you're looking for a way to hack into the signals feeding the ECU and try to get it to run the engine properly. You need more than a few resistors, some wires, and some solder to trick a modern ECU into doing something it doesn't want to.

One could build a circuit to amplify the voltage signal between the MAF and ECU so that the ECU believes more air is coming so it feeds in extra fuel. But how will you deal with ignition timing? Inlet air temperature and associated protection? Knock detection?


Last edited by Laminar on November 11, 2017, 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: supercharging
PostPosted: November 11, 2017, 2:21 pm 
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Joined: October 19, 2009, 9:36 pm
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Location: meadview arizona
thank you everybody for your comments,

i can see that i'm out on my own with this so will do due diligence and hopefully will report back when competed.

lets hope this will be sooner than later and without the need for a new engine.

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 Post subject: Re: supercharging
PostPosted: November 12, 2017, 8:36 am 
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Joined: February 28, 2009, 11:09 pm
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Location: Connersville, Indiana
John, not exactly on your own. As the politicians are wont to say, "Our thoughts and prayers are with you". :cheers:

Bill


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 Post subject: Re: supercharging
PostPosted: November 12, 2017, 2:03 pm 
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Joined: February 8, 2014, 10:47 pm
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Location: Cornholio OR "Where the magic happens"
Laminar wrote:
I'm going to go ahead and guess that you're not planning on doing this, but instead you're looking for a way to hack into the signals feeding the ECU and try to get it to run the engine properly. You need more than a few resistors, some wires, and some solder to trick a modern ECU into doing something it doesn't want to.

One could build a circuit to amplify the voltage signal between the MAF and ECU so that the ECU believes more air is coming so it feeds in extra fuel. But how will you deal with ignition timing? Inlet air temperature and associated protection? Knock detection?


There is no amount of fooling an ECU that will work if the injectors are not big enough for the total power output.
Injector size juggling will need a balance in MAF signal to maintain a proper AF ratio.
Different MAFs or changing the housing size to modify the MAF signal are commonly used.

An exercise in head banging with no sure solution, unless you have some serious experience to draw from I would MegaSquirt it.
Also I would not use the MAF, I would tune it on Speed Density.
Proper injector sizing would still be needed.
In Oregon I am able to get MegaSquirted Pre-OBD2 (pre-1996) vehicles passed through emissions testing.

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 Post subject: Re: supercharging
PostPosted: November 13, 2017, 1:06 am 
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Bent Wrench wrote:
There is no amount of fooling an ECU that will work if the injectors are not big enough for the total power output.
Injector size juggling will need a balance in MAF signal to maintain a proper AF ratio.
Different MAFs or changing the housing size to modify the MAF signal are commonly used.

An exercise in head banging with no sure solution, unless you have some serious experience to draw from I would MegaSquirt it.


100% agree

Quote:
Also I would not use the MAF, I would tune it on Speed Density.


The turbo Duratec Focuses all seem to stick with the MAF. If you're going standalone, Speed Density seems to be the way to go.


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 Post subject: Re: supercharging
PostPosted: November 16, 2017, 9:39 am 
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BBlue wrote:
John, not exactly on your own. As the politicians are wont to say, "Our thoughts and prayers are with you".
Yep, just don't ask for money! :mrgreen:

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