LocostUSA.com

Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
It is currently April 18, 2024, 11:41 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 63 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Remote Coolant Fill
PostPosted: November 24, 2014, 5:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: October 29, 2013, 5:15 pm
Posts: 176
mjalaly wrote:
I will probably go At-om style and mount it next to the head


I think you'll have a hard time getting that to look decent. It works on the V8 because the engine is so tiny that even though the expansion tank is higher than the heads it's still quite low in the car. With a taller engine it's going to stick out like a sore thumb, which is why on the 4 cylinder they've got it hidden inside the air scoop - pic.

With your engine, maybe angle the IC up a bit closer to, say, 45 degrees and stick a flat-ish tank above the intake manifold? Then cover it up with an IC exhaust duct and a big shiny scoop cover like the original has.

Edit. Having never paid too much attention to the styling of the At-om I never noticed the engine cover in the back, which is probably high up enough that you could squeeze an expansion tank under it.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Remote Coolant Fill
PostPosted: November 24, 2014, 7:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 13, 2011, 9:19 am
Posts: 1343
Location: Denver Co
Their engine and mine are similar in overall height and their coolant tank does stick up quite a bit. They change the engine cover on the v8 to cover it, which also in turns make it look a bit better

http://www.topgear.com/uk/imageresize/i ... Height=347

_________________
My build: http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtop ... 18&t=13096


You can build the most awesome thing in the world but at some point, an 80yr old man in a crx is probably going kick your butt on the track... don't ask me how I know.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Remote Coolant Fill
PostPosted: November 25, 2014, 1:30 am 
Offline

Joined: October 19, 2009, 9:36 pm
Posts: 2199
Location: meadview arizona
you haven't read my post have you, the statement that the cap opens because of temperature is incorrect, it is pressure.

go and read my post then go and do it.

there are three basic systems that are, have been used on liquid cooling systems on motor cars.

1. radiator and nothing else, when the engine gets hot it expells the increase in volume through a cap, either pressurized or not, to atmosphire.

2. as above but not to atmosphire but to a resovoir which is open to atmophire via a hose to the bottom of the resovoir allowing the resovoir to catch the expelled coolant, when the system cools down, the radiator coolant decreases in volume and creates a vacuum in the radiator, because of the design of the radiator cap the water is sucked back into the radiator from the cooling tank by the created vacuum, the radiator cap prevents the vacuum from drawing air in instead of the previously expelled coolant.

3. a completely pressurized system, this is nothing like the syetem described in "2". in that due to the unrelyable radiator cap seals and considerable loss of vacuum in the system , it was deemed better to just have a larger volume system in the first place.

this is a much better system as nothing is generally expelled to atmosphire but contained in the system at all times unless repairs are needed.

it comprizes of a normal cooling system as described in 2, but instead of the pressure cap being fitted to the radiator, it required an expansion tank, this is the same as in 2 but is connected directly to the main cooling system instead of via the cap, this allows coolant to enter and leave the expansion tank as the temperature rises and falls, thus expanding and contracting, the coolant is kept at a pressure to increase the boiling point above 212/100 degrees dependant upon the rating of the cap which is now located on the expansion tank, therefore the expansion tank must be located above any other part of the system to ensure complete filling and evacuation of air or steam trapped in the cooling system via a vent pipe from the highest point in the system to the top of the expansion tank.

this system should not require any additional overflow resovoir as when completely filled at hot, that is the maximum volume of the system unless there is a fault in the cooling mechagnism, be it too small of an expansion volume or overall volume through poor design, faulty electric or mechanical fans, defective pressure cap or a leaking head gasket.

this system is in essence the same as system 1, and although it looks more complex, it is just designed to accomodate the lower body styles in modern vehicles with crossflow radiators and no top tank, years ago, the expansion tank would have been just an increase in the volume of the radiator header tank, that is all that is going on with an expansion tank system, and in old cars, the radiator top was generally higher than the rest of the cooling system.

as a point of interest, if your vehicle has system 2, and when cool, there is still the expelled coolant in the resovoir, then you have either a defective cap, a leak in the system or a leaking head gasket, it will expell the coolant into the resovoir when hot, but is not sufficiently hermetically sealed to maintain a vacuum when cooling down to draw the coolant back past the cap into the cooling system.

_________________
this story shall the good man teach his son,
and chrispin chrispian shall ne'er go by,
from this day to the end of the world.
but we in it shall be remembered.


Last edited by john hennessy on November 25, 2014, 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Remote Coolant Fill
PostPosted: November 25, 2014, 7:06 am 
Offline
Automotive Encyclopedia
User avatar

Joined: December 22, 2006, 2:05 pm
Posts: 8044
:lol: So anyway Mjalaly, there is this little red "!" to report offensive and moronic statements.......

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Remote Coolant Fill
PostPosted: November 25, 2014, 11:25 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 13, 2011, 9:19 am
Posts: 1343
Location: Denver Co
Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
:lol: So anyway Mjalaly, there is this little red "!" to report offensive and moronic statements.......


Um i don't know if that was directed at me... i don't know where i said the cap opens due to temperature... i was just trying to figure out where to put it.

Anywhoo... have any of you guys ran across a squarish plastic one? I fond this one for cheap but it doesn't say the caps rating or which style cap can be used... and you cant see the fluid.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OBX-Universal-C ... 87&vxp=mtr

_________________
My build: http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtop ... 18&t=13096


You can build the most awesome thing in the world but at some point, an 80yr old man in a crx is probably going kick your butt on the track... don't ask me how I know.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Remote Coolant Fill
PostPosted: November 25, 2014, 2:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: October 19, 2009, 9:36 pm
Posts: 2199
Location: meadview arizona
mjalaly,
try post 13 on page 1.

i aplogise for any comment that may be offensive but this is basic stuff on cooling.

please read my original post and my edited and more informative last post as you may find it helpful

thanks John.

_________________
this story shall the good man teach his son,
and chrispin chrispian shall ne'er go by,
from this day to the end of the world.
but we in it shall be remembered.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Remote Coolant Fill
PostPosted: November 25, 2014, 3:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 13, 2011, 9:19 am
Posts: 1343
Location: Denver Co
john,

no apology needed but that was posted way before your first post. However, i did read your last post and it was very insightful. Just because it is basic for one person doesn't mean it is for all (like marriage). Car cooling systems was never part of the the ME curriculum (heat expansion etc was though). Now i know and i am sure there are other people on this form who would find this information helpful as well.

picked this guy up for $24. Seems a little big but it may work and if not i can probably make the VW one work.
http://www.autozone.com/collision-body- ... 15153_0_0/

_________________
My build: http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtop ... 18&t=13096


You can build the most awesome thing in the world but at some point, an 80yr old man in a crx is probably going kick your butt on the track... don't ask me how I know.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Remote Coolant Fill
PostPosted: November 25, 2014, 4:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: November 15, 2009, 9:58 pm
Posts: 470
Location: Port Angeles. Wa
Hi,
Be sure you know how to plumb this tank - http://www.autozone.com/collision-body- ... 15153_0_0/.
The lower hose connection goes to a fitting on the water pump inlet and the smaller fitting on the top goes to the highest point in the system (preferably the output from the head). IF the radiator can trap air, then a bleed hose from the top of the radiator should also connect to the smaller fitting (using a T or Y fitting). The way this works - the water pump creates a slightly lower pressure than the system pressure in the tank when the engine is running. This lower pressure draws the slightly higher pressured air/coolant from the top of the head (high point) and the radiator (high point) back into the tank, automatically purging the system of air. The tank CAN be lower than the highest point in the system but then it must be final filled when the engine is running. Once the cap is installed and the system comes up to pressure, do not open the cap or it will "belch" coolant. Only check when cool.
Another point - make sure there is a small bypass hole in the thermostat. You WANT some coolant flowing thru the radiator at all times and it allows filling the system too be much easier.
John Rounds

_________________
When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting -- Steve McQueen from LeMans

My build log viewtopic.php?f=36&t=10658&start=0 NOW NAMED =The Wycked 7

My other build log viewtopic.php?f=18&t=15162 The Skayt'R6


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Remote Coolant Fill
PostPosted: November 25, 2014, 4:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 13, 2011, 9:19 am
Posts: 1343
Location: Denver Co
Kartracer47 wrote:
Hi,
Be sure you know how to plumb this tank - http://www.autozone.com/collision-body- ... 15153_0_0/.
The lower hose connection goes to a fitting on the water pump inlet and the smaller fitting on the top goes to the highest point in the system (preferably the output from the head). IF the radiator can trap air, then a bleed hose from the top of the radiator should also connect to the smaller fitting (using a T or Y fitting). The way this works - the water pump creates a slightly lower pressure than the system pressure in the tank when the engine is running. This lower pressure draws the slightly higher pressured air/coolant from the top of the head (high point) and the radiator (high point) back into the tank, automatically purging the system of air. The tank CAN be lower than the highest point in the system but then it must be final filled when the engine is running. Once the cap is installed and the system comes up to pressure, do not open the cap or it will "belch" coolant. Only check when cool.
Another point - make sure there is a small bypass hole in the thermostat. You WANT some coolant flowing thru the radiator at all times and it allows filling the system too be much easier.
John Rounds


Yeah the radiator is on the front of the car vs the back where the coolant tank will be. I will have to add a bleed valve to the radiator to make sure it doesn't trap air.

while we are at it... one of the upper tubes has a check valve in it... this is for the recovery tank correct so that you cannot suck in air during cool down?

_________________
My build: http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtop ... 18&t=13096


You can build the most awesome thing in the world but at some point, an 80yr old man in a crx is probably going kick your butt on the track... don't ask me how I know.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Remote Coolant Fill
PostPosted: November 25, 2014, 7:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 13, 2011, 9:19 am
Posts: 1343
Location: Denver Co
Yeah its too big.

Attachment:
rps20141125_163705.jpg



I need something more compact like this i think.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Spike-Cha ... ,6668.html


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
My build: http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtop ... 18&t=13096


You can build the most awesome thing in the world but at some point, an 80yr old man in a crx is probably going kick your butt on the track... don't ask me how I know.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Remote Coolant Fill
PostPosted: November 26, 2014, 2:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: November 15, 2009, 9:58 pm
Posts: 470
Location: Port Angeles. Wa
The check valve you refer to is NOT in the tank you are thinking of using. That tank IS the reservoir.

The check valve is in the coolant recovery style of radiator cap. The hose at the filler neck goes into the bottom of the open to air coolant recovery tank.

Good luck!!! John R


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Remote Coolant Fill
PostPosted: November 26, 2014, 10:53 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 13, 2011, 9:19 am
Posts: 1343
Location: Denver Co
Kartracer47 wrote:
The check valve you refer to is NOT in the tank you are thinking of using. That tank IS the reservoir.

The check valve is in the coolant recovery style of radiator cap. The hose at the filler neck goes into the bottom of the open to air coolant recovery tank.

Good luck!!! John R


John to clarify, on the dorman tank in the picture above, there is a check valve in the top port where my thumb is located. I blew into all the ports.

Its really a moot point since i need to use a different expansion tank anyway.

_________________
My build: http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtop ... 18&t=13096


You can build the most awesome thing in the world but at some point, an 80yr old man in a crx is probably going kick your butt on the track... don't ask me how I know.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Remote Coolant Fill
PostPosted: December 1, 2014, 1:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 13, 2011, 9:19 am
Posts: 1343
Location: Denver Co
Any thoughts on how big the expansion tank needs to be??

This guy comes with everything and is 12oz
http://www.ebay.com/itm/201216423801?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

this one is 16oz
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Spike-Alumi ... 66&vxp=mtr

and this one is 40oz
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway- ... aQodAXEA8Q


this one is cool too and may help with fitment issues.
http://pitstopusa.com/i-5060864-howe-al ... -tank.html

_________________
My build: http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtop ... 18&t=13096


You can build the most awesome thing in the world but at some point, an 80yr old man in a crx is probably going kick your butt on the track... don't ask me how I know.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Remote Coolant Fill
PostPosted: December 1, 2014, 3:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: August 19, 2014, 5:17 pm
Posts: 685
Location: England
Normally allow a minimum of 6% over system capacity for expansion and 2% room for deaeration . 10 -15% is a better all round figure imho.

Bob

_________________
Build Log viewtopic.php?f=35&t=16640&p=187700#p187700

Mancave http://s1116.photobucket.com/user/mypic ... ow/mancave


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Remote Coolant Fill
PostPosted: December 1, 2014, 3:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 13, 2011, 9:19 am
Posts: 1343
Location: Denver Co
Yeah i have no clue what the systems capacity is...

_________________
My build: http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtop ... 18&t=13096


You can build the most awesome thing in the world but at some point, an 80yr old man in a crx is probably going kick your butt on the track... don't ask me how I know.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 63 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
POWERED_BY