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 Post subject: "Cooling Bible"
PostPosted: August 27, 2017, 9:05 am 
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Answers many questions. A good idea to read this first. After settling on an engine/HP range, before grabbing that Ebay Radiator.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Cooling/

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 Post subject: Re: "Cooling Bible"
PostPosted: August 28, 2017, 11:16 am 
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Joined: April 26, 2008, 6:06 pm
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Location: Under the weather. (Seattle)
Great infomercial.

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 Post subject: Re: "Cooling Bible"
PostPosted: August 28, 2017, 11:49 am 
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Driven5 wrote:
Great infomercial.


Not sure if that's meant to discredit the info or not, hard to tell on a forum post. However, I was about to post that this is a GREAT cooling system reference. I work hand in hand with the guys doing the cooling system design at GM and this all rings 100% true with the OEM engineering I've been a part of. Nothing he says is in any way incorrect and he covers some pretty meaty topics that aren't easy to learn about piecemeal.

When he starts selling Griffin stuff about 3/4 of the way down it's a pretty clear transition, he's not really hiding any marketing as tech info. That's always my 'red line' on marketing material, don't hide it.

People have to have some reason/motivation to do that kind of documentation work. If he want's to tell me about his product after providing a great, accurate, technical explanation of the whole system it's a part of that's fine with me.

Alex


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 Post subject: Re: "Cooling Bible"
PostPosted: August 28, 2017, 12:09 pm 
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ajmacdon wrote:

Not sure if that's meant to discredit the info or not...
Not discredit the purely technical information, as that is all certainly valid, but there definitely was a double meaning to my statement. Great as in you can learn a lot from it, but also great as in how they expertly managed to constantly slip in promotional Griffin references throughout the article from start to finish. It's a more in-depth and technical written version of the typical American car shows, which are thinly veiled infomercials from supposedly independent sources. The title would have been more accurately:

"The Coooling Bible: Paid For By Griffin Thermal Products"

Or maybe just:

"The Griffin Thermal Products Cooling Bible"

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 Post subject: Re: "Cooling Bible"
PostPosted: August 28, 2017, 1:13 pm 
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Joined: May 27, 2006, 9:46 pm
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Location: BC, Canada. eh?
Nonetheless, I found it informative. It answered some questions I had, confirmed the general wisdom of the setup I've built, yet posed a few new things I need to address (for example, I don't have a shroud for my fan, due to space issues. Time to re-think that, and get creative!).

I've bookmarked the site for future reference.

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 Post subject: Re: "Cooling Bible"
PostPosted: August 31, 2017, 4:19 pm 
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Location: Novato, CA
Great info. Explains why my early cooling system worked so badly (2 burnt valves in 2 years), and why just adding a surge tank made all the difference in the world.


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 Post subject: Re: "Cooling Bible"
PostPosted: September 4, 2017, 5:42 pm 
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Location: Green Bay, WI
nick47 wrote:
Great info. Explains why my early cooling system worked so badly (2 burnt valves in 2 years), and why just adding a surge tank made all the difference in the world.

Nick I am curious as to what happened with your car and how the surge tank helped? Is it worth putting in right away?

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 Post subject: Re: "Cooling Bible"
PostPosted: September 5, 2017, 5:16 pm 
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In my original, basic two-hose setup, the thermostat housing was the high point in the cooling system. The book says this is okay, so I went with it. The problem is, the cooling system gets air in it when the coolant expands and goes out the overflow, and when I let it go too long without topping up, the upper cylinder head wouldn't have any water in it. Not good for the valves.

I mounted the surge tank (Moroso 1 qt.) as high on the firewall as it would go, then plumbed the tank the same way the heater is plumbed on an MGB, from a fitting on the side of the cylinder head to the top of the surge tank, and from the bottom of the surge tank to a fitting just in front of the water pump. This routing was mostly guesswork on my part, but confirmed by the article. I also added an overflow bottle, although I've never found much coolant in it.

Now, even if I have an inch or two of air in the surge tank, the cylinder head is completely filled with water. And the surge tank never seems to get much lower than an inch or two. I top it up maybe twice in the summer, never in the winter.
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 Post subject: Re: "Cooling Bible"
PostPosted: September 5, 2017, 5:34 pm 
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Ah ha. I get it. Thanks a lot. I've never seen how those were used but I do now. It's like an expansion tank in a piping system. ( my own coralation). Thanks Nick

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 Post subject: Re: "Cooling Bible"
PostPosted: September 10, 2017, 8:51 am 
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I went to the parts store yesterday to get coolant hoses, which worked out well. However now I have a return line higher than the radiator top connection. I am going to need a surge tank now won't I? I'll have to plug off the overflow at the radiator and use one off the surge tank. Can someone conferm this thinking for me.

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 Post subject: Re: "Cooling Bible"
PostPosted: September 10, 2017, 6:18 pm 
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Location: BC, Canada. eh?
I'm hoping to avoid building a complex cooling system. At this point, my radiator cap is the highest point in the cooling system (by several inches). I have an overflow tank, with a return into the radiator neck (so, it's a closed system), and I'm hoping that will suffice. I have a heater, too, but the top of the core is about 8" below the top of the system, so I don't anticipate a problem there. Even my thermostat housing is a good 6" below the rad cap.

My electric fan sensor is on the back of the rad, right at the inflow hose (so, at the hottest point of the coolant), and controls an electric thermostatic control for the fan.

Anybody anticipate any problems with this?

I have a buddy who believes in building the most complex cooling systems known to man, with overflow tanks, surge tanks, fill tanks, passive temperature senders with manual overrides, etc. etc. In the end, he always gets them working, but due to their complexity, getting there can take a loooong time, with many, many revisions & seemingly endless problems.

I, on the other hand, would like to do it simpler...and lighter. Considering that the Ford Focus ZX3 (from whence my engine came) had only a simple system (which I've basically copied straight across) and aren't known to have any cooling issues, I'm hoping I've done it right...

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 Post subject: Re: "Cooling Bible"
PostPosted: September 11, 2017, 7:30 am 
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Joined: September 22, 2005, 8:12 am
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zetec7
It does not sound like you are playing fair :D The rad cap at the high point!
That will take all the fun out of bleeding the air out of the system.
Yup a KISS cooling system.
Dave W


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 Post subject: Re: "Cooling Bible"
PostPosted: September 11, 2017, 8:36 am 
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Location: West Chicago,IL
zetec7 wrote:
I'm hoping to avoid building a complex cooling system. At this point, my radiator cap is the highest point in the cooling system (by several inches). I have an overflow tank, with a return into the radiator neck (so, it's a closed system), and I'm hoping that will suffice. I have a heater, too, but the top of the core is about 8" below the top of the system, so I don't anticipate a problem there. Even my thermostat housing is a good 6" below the rad cap.

My electric fan sensor is on the back of the rad, right at the inflow hose (so, at the hottest point of the coolant), and controls an electric thermostatic control for the fan.

Anybody anticipate any problems with this?

I have a buddy who believes in building the most complex cooling systems known to man, with overflow tanks, surge tanks, fill tanks, passive temperature senders with manual overrides, etc. etc. In the end, he always gets them working, but due to their complexity, getting there can take a loooong time, with many, many revisions & seemingly endless problems.

I, on the other hand, would like to do it simpler...and lighter. Considering that the Ford Focus ZX3 (from whence my engine came) had only a simple system (which I've basically copied straight across) and aren't known to have any cooling issues, I'm hoping I've done it right...


Most don't have problems with a simple system with an overflow tank like you have.

Fan sensor should work fine there.

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 Post subject: Re: "Cooling Bible"
PostPosted: September 11, 2017, 11:28 am 
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Tundra 7 wrote:
I went to the parts store yesterday to get coolant hoses, which worked out well. However now I have a return line higher than the radiator top connection. I am going to need a surge tank now won't I? I'll have to plug off the overflow at the radiator and use one off the surge tank. Can someone conferm this thinking for me.

If you can get all the air out you shouldn't have a problem. I have a similar setup, with the rad cap quite a bit lower than the thermostat housing, and to add a bit more difficulty, the upper rad hose comes out of the rad angled down and the rad cap is on the side of the rad. I've got another rad cap on the thermostat housing, and a non-pressured overflow bottle that is way lower than either rad cap. I had issues with not sucking the coolant back into the cooling system until I "T"ed the two overflow lines together. I also have a higher pressure cap on the radiator, so the one on the thermostat housing will open first, but with both overflows hooked together, I don't think that matters. Because of the way my radiator is tilted and the hose sloping down, I have to lift up the left side of my car to bleed the trapped air out of the upper rad tank. I don't have any real good pictures of the rad, but this shows the angles involved at least.
Attachment:
IMG_20150706_163505.jpg
IMG_20150706_163505.jpg [ 283.77 KiB | Viewed 243 times ]

My overflow bottle is just in front of the passengers feet, low in the car.
Kristian

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 Post subject: Re: "Cooling Bible"
PostPosted: September 11, 2017, 5:43 pm 
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Kristian how do you not fill up the overflow instead of the real of the engine capacity? if the rad and overflow are lower than the fill point?

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