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PostPosted: April 6, 2023, 10:32 am 
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I'm working at the boot of my build. I think I now have an workable idea for routing my exhaust under the car and up over the live axle, exiting at the kickup.

However, there are a lot of components that want to be in the same place: fuel tank, battery, external fuel pump, fuel filters, fuel lines, battery cables, etc., etc. I want to actually mock up the run of the exhaust pipes (it will have duals) before I position everything and start welding things in place.

My exhaust will be 2-1/2" in diameter. Does anyone know of an affordable material that's flexible yet will hold it's shape that I can use to try out exhaust paths?

Thanks in advance,

Lonnie

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

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PostPosted: April 6, 2023, 3:16 pm 
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Lonnie, not a direct answer to your question by why run the exhaust over the axle? It could go under like it did on the Austin Healy as I recall. The axle cannot drop farther down than the lower frame tube in any event.

I think the Donks run their exhausts over the axle, but outside the frame, so the rear track would need to be increased.

I would suggest pool noodles, but they are nowhere near 2 1/2 diameter. Any I don't imagine they sell foam plumbing insulation in SoCal.

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PostPosted: April 6, 2023, 3:58 pm 
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If not pool noodles, maybe PVC insulation wrap? Not overly stiff, so it might take some coaxing/zip ties to get it to stay in place.

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PostPosted: April 6, 2023, 5:05 pm 
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I agree with Warren. 2.5 takes up a lot of space plus the mandrel bend radius.
I happen to have a pic of the donk wheel well routing.

I suggest poster board rolled and taped into 2.5" od tubes. You can slot the untapped side for bends that are the same radius as what you are going to buy.

Two inch duals are plenty for most v8s with such a short system.


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PostPosted: April 6, 2023, 5:20 pm 
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All of the above. Dual 2.5 is overkill for a 200ish horse V6, and it's probably worth the effort to try running the exhaust under the axle. What are your expected tire size, ground clearance, and suspension stiffness? Some rough number look to cut it close, but maybe even doable without a droop limiter.

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PostPosted: April 6, 2023, 10:09 pm 
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@Warren Nethercote
@ JAMADOR
@ MV8
@Driven5

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. There's a lot to answer, so I'll put it here in one response.

@MV8, Driven5
I'd love to use 2" exhaust. However, all the aftermarket mufflers seem to be a minimum of 2.5". I need a very short muffler like the Black Widow "Angry Housewife" model (below). That has to do with the amount of space available before I need the exhaust to turn under the car after leaving the engine compartment. I don't want it to run past the point where you step into the car. Black Widow is somewhat local to me. I could ask them if they'd do a 2" inlet and outlet.

It is small, but very effective. I've talked with them personally and heard sound clips of those mufflers on a Toyota Tacoma V6. It's pretty mellow. The Tacoma had cats, so I may need to add baffles or a short resonator at the exhaust tip.
Attachment:
Angry Housewife.jpg


@JAMADOR
Thanks. It's worth a trip to Home Depot to try it out.

@Warren Nethercote & MV8 & Driven5
The Panhard rod on my car is adjustable on both ends. To get the rear roll center below 6" (the bottom of the lower chassis rail) both ends must be lowered. It can drop 2" to give a 4" roll center. I don't know what I'll need yet. TBD on the finished car. The bar and adjusters take up the whole space in between the two outside chassis rails.
Attachment:
Panhard Rod Setup.jpg


However, your questions did force me to go back and look at my build photos. I had convinced myself somewhere along the way there wasn't enough room. From the Panhard rod photo, you can see running the exhaust inside the chassis rails could potentially block the adjustment of the Panhard rod downward.

However, going back and looking at some build photos I may have to change my mind. If I run the exhaust right beneath the lower chassis rail, and slightly outside it, that could work. The red arrows show the clearance between the inside if the chassis rails and the control arm bracket bolt head on the axle. It's right at 1-3/8 inches.
Attachment:
Outside Clearance.jpg


The axle is at ride height in the photo. The green arrow shows how much the axle can drop before the control arm bracket is level with the bottom of the lower chassis rail. The coilovers will drop a maximum of 3" by design. So, I don't think there's a realworld chance the brackets could drop BELOW the bottom of the chassis rails unless the coilovers themselves fail.

Thus, if I put run the exhaust just under the chassis rails and slightly outside them (purple circle) it should work. Anyone see it differently? If not, I think the problem has been solved.

Thanks very much,


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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: April 7, 2023, 3:16 am 
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There's no law saying you can't adapt different size to the inlet and/or outlet of a muffler.

The further you get from the engine, the more the gasses cool and get denser, and the smaller the exhaust can be without losing flow/power. Running it under the chassis might get tight on ground clearance, especially under bump. It looks to me like there may be enough room to run a 2" pipe (or vise-ovaled 2.5") between the frame and tire, while still staying low enough to not interfere with the bracket at max droop.

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PostPosted: April 7, 2023, 5:26 am 
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You know Lonnie, it would look sexier with side pipes.
But you know me, I'm a sexy kinda guy.......................

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PostPosted: April 7, 2023, 6:25 am 
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If you want to make the muffler more effective, just reducing the outlet will help a lot. Oems typically have slightly smaller outlets.

I can't picture why you would need such a tiny muffler. Is it going on the end of the system?

If GC is the issue at the rear, you could route the tips through the skin and roll the edge or fit edge molding to the opening.

For just smooth tubing down the side of the car and mufflers behind/under the axle, you might consider a standard small case universal, 3.25 x 7.75 x 11.0" case, 16.0 overall, 2.0 in/out. Available with offsets. Fully aluminized are actually longer lasting than low grade stainless universals.

Summit's site is very useful for searching based on specs. More options if you have room for a 4 inch thick case.
https://www.summitracing.com/search/par ... =Ascending

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Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


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PostPosted: April 7, 2023, 10:54 am 
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I'm with Perry. Side pipes, Ala McLaren/Mercedes SLR :twisted:

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PostPosted: April 7, 2023, 12:04 pm 
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@horchoha, JAMADOR
I definitely want the exhaust to empty at the rear of the car. That's for the noise issue while driving. V6's can be very raspy, especially under heavy throttle and they can drone too. I definitely don't want mufflers and hot pipes where you step in/out of the car. That's for comfort and safety.

@MV8
The muffler will be side mounted just after the engine bay and go under the car just before the back end of the scuttle. Allowing for the room taken up by bends, the muffler has to be quite small. I have the bracket attachment points already on the chassis.

Black Window has a slightly longer, but similar design that could work (other vendors too, of course). However, I spoke to their engineer first person and he told me the design of the smaller muffler will be more effective with the noise level & raspiness of the V6. He didn't get into the technical details, but had the audio file I mentioned for the Tacoma.

There's 6" of ground clearance at ride height, so I'm marginally worried about the under car exhaust hitting things. I believe I can fit a small resonator at the rear, or baffles for sure, so I believe I can keep the noise at a livable level.

@Driven5
Yes, I think that's right, Justin. I think the mechanics of the coilovers will prevent collision. I'll ask about the 2" inlet/outlet possibility. That would save "adapter" segments at both ends and space too.

Thanks for the input all,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: April 7, 2023, 4:00 pm 
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You can remove about four inches from the muffler and butt weld the bends as you will be doing for the headers and pipes, so you may have room for a longer case.

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Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


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PostPosted: April 8, 2023, 10:42 am 
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@MV8
I'll probably have the exhaust work done by a shop. The stock Mustang headers on the 3.8L V6 are actually quite nice, and I'm going to use them with the donor engine.

Nevertheless, your idea is a valid one.

Thanks,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: April 12, 2023, 3:32 pm 
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Oval exhaust tubing:
https://www.summitracing.com/search/bra ... AAQAvD_BwE

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PostPosted: April 13, 2023, 11:59 am 
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@tibimakai
Thank you!

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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