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PostPosted: October 9, 2016, 12:27 am 
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Joined: February 12, 2008, 2:08 am
Posts: 281
Location: Olympia WA
Well my first car is pretty much done and I needed another project showed up and I jumped in. I found a very early formula 440 Red Devil car. It has had a rich racing history in the northwest and I had hoped to get a log book. In the end it does not have a log book and I am left to search its history on the web.

The car weighs about 750 lbs, and as an early F440 car has no suspension at all. (Colin Chapman would have been pleas d). I scooped it up and took it completely apart for an inspection and refurbish.

It came with an old Kawasaki 440 cc liquid cooled engine and boxes of clutch parts. As one when never stick with and unmodified anything I looked at an engine upgrade. It will not longer be class legal with the change, yet it should be fun. I have picked up a Suzuki GSXR 1000 engine for the car. The Engine dynoed at 154 hp tithe wheels when it was in a bike. (That works out to 4.8 pounds per ho). After some research I decided to send the harness to be cut down by a professional. I know it is not the Locost way, yet the harness can be quite problematic.

This winter I hope to get it together to run Autocross and track days next year. The following winter I will add a suspension.

I am interested in your thoughts about some of the winter projects.
1. Mounting the engine - I assume the oil pan of the engine is horizontal when it is in a bike, anyone know for sure?

2. Clutch cable operation - I have seen some interesting setups that allow for have clutching for shifting and full clutch for starting. I am looking to go pretty basic at this point.

3. Shifting - push-pull cable or ridged mechanism.

4. Oil pressure - I do not have a deep sump or special pick, yet i do have a 1 quart

Thanks for you time

JEB
Tiny screen, big thumbs


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_________________
● Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines. ~ Enzo Ferrari
● I have a dream: My car has a new type of engine: a half-turbine half-reciprocated engine. I invented it! ~ Dr. Felix Wankel
● It has occurred to me, amateurs built the ark and professionals built the titanic.


Last edited by kill no cone on April 26, 2017, 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Little Red Devil
PostPosted: October 9, 2016, 9:26 am 
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Joined: April 12, 2012, 11:56 am
Posts: 567
Location: Pemberton, BC
Sound like a fun project. I didn't know that they didn't run a full suspension. Was the series sponsor the Chiropractic Association? :rofl:
I don't know for certain, but I believe the engines are generally mounted with the oil pan level. That's how I mounted mine.
For the clutch, I had good success with a floor mounted hydraulic pedal and a slave cylinder mounted on the frame, pulling the clutch. I added a heavy duty throttle return spring (diesel equipment) opposing the slave cylinder for a better feel. It is still light, but works very well.
I made a very simple push/pull rod from some aluminum tubing, some rod ends and a small bell crank.
For your high lateral G environment, I think you must go with an Accusump or a dry sump system. I installed a baffle and an oil cooler for more capacity, but that is only for street use.
porsche962 hasn't posted here for a while, but I recall that he has a lot of experience racing with a GSXR. Maybe find one of his old posts and shoot him an e-mail.
Look forward to your progress.

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 Post subject: Re: Little Red Devil
PostPosted: October 12, 2016, 11:04 pm 
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Joined: February 12, 2008, 2:08 am
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Location: Olympia WA
Thanks Martin,
I think you are right, the old Formula 440 racing must have been sponsored by the chiropractors.
Later it must have been the sponsored by USA Hockey, because they started using pucks for the suspension.

Moved the engine into the tight space in my car and I think it will work. I will post a pic. I need a different exhaust system yet it will work.
Thanks for your thoughts on the clutch and shifter.
JEB

_________________
● Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines. ~ Enzo Ferrari
● I have a dream: My car has a new type of engine: a half-turbine half-reciprocated engine. I invented it! ~ Dr. Felix Wankel
● It has occurred to me, amateurs built the ark and professionals built the titanic.


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 Post subject: Re: Little Red Devil
PostPosted: October 13, 2016, 4:14 pm 
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Location: Sarasota
I would not recommend an accusump. I bought one for Scrap Metal and it caused the VTec not to engage. Through research and and speaking to several experienced racers the accusump is really not a good investment. The theory is that as you corner the oil pressure drops so the accusump adds oil to increase pressure. Then when you get on the straight the accusump sucks that oil back out. The problem is that is when you need to pressure as you are at wide open throttle. Drysump is definitely the way to go if you can find a good cost effective kit.

Do some research on your engine I know some Bike engines do much better then others when installed in a car. Obviously a bike engine sees very little lateral load due to the bike leaning. However I expect that cool little car of yours will pull at least 2.0G with a good set of tires so a drysump is probably the best option.

If you do want an accusump let me know I have a 3qt one sat in may garage with all the fixings.

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2013 & 2014 DSP Florida State Autocross Champion

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 Post subject: Re: Little Red Devil
PostPosted: October 13, 2016, 5:01 pm 
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Location: Summerville, SC
I think you'll need to stretch the chassis a little to fit the GSX, so are you planning to put in a rear diff or keep the solid axle?

Solid axle cars are interesting to drive. you have to head into a corner much faster than you think that you'll be able to take it or else the inside rear wheel won't lift and you'll plow straight ahead. You have to find the happy place where the inside wheel lifts and you can turn, but not break the outer loose and loop it. I wasn't good at finding that happy place :oops:

The GSX benefits a lot from a baffle plate if you want to go low cost but assume some more risk than a dry sump.

When you start to run it you're going right into A Mod, so welcome to the insanity. I'm currently refurbishing an old FSAE car to run a GSXR600 in A Mod in my local group. As for cable or mechanical shifter. The car currently has a cable and it's a GIANT PITA to get it to up and down shift consistently. I'm going to give one more mod a go then switch back to mechanical.

For the clutch cable in my R1 powered 7 I built a pedal with a little bit to high of a ratio. High ratio is needed because there is such a small amount of travel in the clutch pack and a REALLY small slip range. I've seen a few cars with a bike clutch lever mounted on the shifter handle. With a dog box you really only need the clutch to get off the starting line.

Have fun

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OOPS I did it again
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17496

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http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=15216


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 Post subject: Re: Little Red Devil
PostPosted: October 17, 2016, 10:27 pm 
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Joined: February 12, 2008, 2:08 am
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Location: Olympia WA
Thanks Too Busy, I appreciate your description of driving a solid axle car. I have been asking, yet have had very little feedback on what is difference in driving required.

Next year I will be using the solid axle, although I do plan to add a Torsen diff and a suspension as well.
Love the idea of an oil pan baffle, that is an easy way to get a little protection. Thanks for the high ratio clutch cable insight.

Thanks guys
JEB

_________________
● Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines. ~ Enzo Ferrari
● I have a dream: My car has a new type of engine: a half-turbine half-reciprocated engine. I invented it! ~ Dr. Felix Wankel
● It has occurred to me, amateurs built the ark and professionals built the titanic.


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 Post subject: Re: Little Red Devi
PostPosted: December 29, 2016, 6:48 pm 
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Joined: February 12, 2008, 2:08 am
Posts: 281
Location: Olympia WA
Out with the old and in with the new
The holiday break gave me a bit of time in the shop. The old 440 cc engine and the CVT are out and the new engine is in. It is a GSXR 1000 engine. The old set up had an engine separate from the clutching system using a half shaft high took up a good deal of room. The bike engine and trans are integrated so it was an easy fit it. (See photo below).

The hardest part was the header and exhaust system. Did you know you can't weld stainless and titanium? It was news to me. After several frustrating attempts I went in to do some research. :BH: I learned welding was not going to do it, yet I could soldier it with pure silver if I could find a complete vacuum. Instead I inserted some stainless tubing into the titianim header and pinned it there. Then I welded the stainless exhaust to the insets. Not perfect, yet should work until I build the whole thing out of stainless. (Way too ugly, not photo here).

Now, I am working on the supporting systems and I would like your feedback. Probably the most protected spot in the car is the space behind the tilted seat. My fuel system (pump and regulator) as well as the bulk of my electrical system (battery, relays, fuses and such) fit nicely in this space. (See photo below). It fits well, yet I am concerned with putting fuel and spark together in the same area. I could divide the space with a partician (see the masking tape) and still I have concerns. If this area gets crushed fuel and spark are probably the least of my worries.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks JEB

Two thumbs and a tiny screen


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_________________
● Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines. ~ Enzo Ferrari
● I have a dream: My car has a new type of engine: a half-turbine half-reciprocated engine. I invented it! ~ Dr. Felix Wankel
● It has occurred to me, amateurs built the ark and professionals built the titanic.
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 Post subject: Re: Little Red Devil
PostPosted: December 29, 2016, 8:12 pm 
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Joined: October 3, 2009, 1:33 pm
Posts: 27
Location: FL
You can weld titanium at home, {not to stainless} and silver soldering (silver brazing) may not hold up under high load (hot) conditions. I made a titanium header from 2 R1 titanium exhaust systems I cut up and and welded into the desired configuration. I used a flexible foam tube inside the header pipes to match the original header tube lengths. Very clean joints inside and out, argon purge, and I made a copper sheet 1mm thick about 1" wide to fit inside each joint to help maintain alignment (with a silver soldered stainless steel safety cable to aid removal) and resist burn through. I'll try posting pics. G;-)


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R1 single seat track car, in progress
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 Post subject: Re: Little Red Devil
PostPosted: December 29, 2016, 11:50 pm 
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Location: Olympia WA
Wow Glen, beautiful work, nicely done.
JEB

_________________
● Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines. ~ Enzo Ferrari
● I have a dream: My car has a new type of engine: a half-turbine half-reciprocated engine. I invented it! ~ Dr. Felix Wankel
● It has occurred to me, amateurs built the ark and professionals built the titanic.


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 Post subject: Re: Little Red Devil
PostPosted: December 30, 2016, 8:33 am 
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Joined: October 19, 2012, 9:25 pm
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Location: Summerville, SC
My F500, the FSAE car, and the current A Mod project all had the fuel cell and battery behind the seat. Starter solenoid, fuses, and battery tender either in the engine bay or on the right side pod. Looks like you've done away with the side pod though.

_________________
Too much week, not enough weekend.

OOPS I did it again
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17496

Blood Sweat and Beers
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=15216


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 Post subject: Re: Little Red Devil
PostPosted: February 22, 2017, 12:00 am 
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Joined: February 12, 2008, 2:08 am
Posts: 281
Location: Olympia WA
Hello group,
Just checking in. Progress is slow, yet the project is still advancing.

The engine is in, the clutch and shifter are built and appear to work.
Most of the electrical system is in and under the seat. The fuel system will be mounted in the pod behind the fuel tank.

Most all the other parts have been cleaned, repainted and ready to be installed.
All the best
JEB


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_________________
● Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines. ~ Enzo Ferrari
● I have a dream: My car has a new type of engine: a half-turbine half-reciprocated engine. I invented it! ~ Dr. Felix Wankel
● It has occurred to me, amateurs built the ark and professionals built the titanic.
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 Post subject: Re: Little Red Devil
PostPosted: February 22, 2017, 10:45 am 
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Joined: October 19, 2012, 9:25 pm
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Location: Summerville, SC
Nice hand shifter and use of a Morse cable.

I see it's straight axle, so it should be very exciting to drive. One bit on bike engines, the trans HATES going backwards. So, get the clutch in if you start to spin. Otherwise things transmission internals tend to break.

_________________
Too much week, not enough weekend.

OOPS I did it again
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17496

Blood Sweat and Beers
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=15216


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 Post subject: Re: Little Red Devil
PostPosted: February 22, 2017, 10:36 pm 
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Good to know, clutch in, thanks Tommy.
The solid axle will require a learning curve. Hope to put a sealed Torsen next winter.
JEB

_________________
● Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines. ~ Enzo Ferrari
● I have a dream: My car has a new type of engine: a half-turbine half-reciprocated engine. I invented it! ~ Dr. Felix Wankel
● It has occurred to me, amateurs built the ark and professionals built the titanic.


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 Post subject: Re: Little Red Devil
PostPosted: February 23, 2017, 9:41 am 
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Joined: October 19, 2012, 9:25 pm
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Location: Summerville, SC
kill no cone wrote:
Good to know, clutch in, thanks Tommy.
The solid axle will require a learning curve. Hope to put a sealed Torsen next winter.
JEB

IF I still have my current A Mod next winter I hope to fit a small LSD as well. Haven't decided between torsen or something else. There's a guy just south of me that built his final drive around a VW Golf diff. It's a really small package.

_________________
Too much week, not enough weekend.

OOPS I did it again
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17496

Blood Sweat and Beers
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=15216


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 Post subject: Re: Little Red Devil
PostPosted: March 9, 2017, 1:11 am 
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Joined: February 12, 2008, 2:08 am
Posts: 281
Location: Olympia WA
Parts are coming together and it is beginning to look like a car.
Fuel system is done.
Oil cooling system is set.

Just occurred to me that my car came with a copper radiator and I have an alumunim engine. This worries me, can I use some kind of anti-corrosive agent and call it good. Or, do I need to I need to get a new alumunim radiator?
Other suggestions?

Thanks JEB

_________________
● Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines. ~ Enzo Ferrari
● I have a dream: My car has a new type of engine: a half-turbine half-reciprocated engine. I invented it! ~ Dr. Felix Wankel
● It has occurred to me, amateurs built the ark and professionals built the titanic.


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