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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: January 12, 2020, 9:42 am 
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davew wrote:
Nice!! cleaned up really good. My question is how did you unload it into the garage?
Davew


My Horrible Fright engine crane does all the heavy lifting around here. Everything from getting the A Mod or 7 onto and off of the table, to loading and unloading equipment.
Wifey Dearest nearly lost her mind a couple of months ago when she saw the milling machine dangling in the air.

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OOPS I did it again
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17496

Blood Sweat and Beers
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PostPosted: January 12, 2020, 9:43 am 
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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
Nice. Big enough yet not too heavy.

Exactly. It's a huge improvement over the Grizzly mini lathe, but not a full on industrial machine.

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OOPS I did it again
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17496

Blood Sweat and Beers
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=15216


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PostPosted: January 13, 2020, 2:39 pm 
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Sean in CT wrote:
Nice i have a 13" Southbend which is pretty similar.
I think Craftsman was made by Atlas, in case you need parts
homeshopmachinist.net is a good forum for weekend guys
practicalmachinist.com is good to, but they generally dont like home machine questions

I bought the import Aloris style quick change tooling to replace lantern tool post - awesome upgrade! make set up faster, quick tool changes and much more rigid. I use the CXA size. Bigger is better!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CXA-Wedge-Tool ... SwLKhcMQqm


CXA - heavy duty. That would be the most robust piece of this lathe by far.

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OOPS I did it again
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17496

Blood Sweat and Beers
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=15216


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PostPosted: January 14, 2020, 4:15 pm 
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It wasn't until I started playing around with VSUSP that I realized what a difference (in theory at least) that the smallest changes have on your suspension geometry.

Change tire width, redo your numbers
Change rim width, redo your numbers
Change rim offset, redo your numbers
Change static ride height, redo your numbers

Eventually I looked at the numbers and realized that tweaking beyond (and sometimes to) the second decimal place I'm just kidding myself. I'm not going to get the suspension pickup points located in 2D space to the thousandth of an inch. So with that in mind, what do I do? you guessed it, redo my numbers.
I started looking at perfect and seeing what the impact was if I miss ideal by 1/16". Roll center starts moving around a bit, not terrible.
What if I change tire size? from 245's to 225's. BIG changes.

Then I looked at ease of getting LCA's where they needed to be on this particular chassis, not so good. The distance from centerline is a good bit inside the frame rails. Far enough to be a bit of concern on droop, so I found a nice compromise between where I started and the ideal that Mv8 worked out and decided to roll with it. It's better than where I started, worse than Mv8's numbers, and close enough for Government work.

Going over where everything ACTUALLY landed after being tacked up I have all 8 pick up points within 1/16" inch of my targets.
Next up a work trip, then fabricating control arms.

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OOPS I did it again
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17496

Blood Sweat and Beers
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=15216


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PostPosted: January 14, 2020, 4:18 pm 
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The other key learning as a result of this exercise.

The NEXT car I build is going to start with wheel and tire selection. Nail that down as step 1.
Then design suspension pickup points around a ride height. Pick my brackets and lock them down so I have the offsets from hole ceterline to mating face with the chassis.

Only with those 2 items done will I start to draw a frame.

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Too much week, not enough weekend.

OOPS I did it again
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17496

Blood Sweat and Beers
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=15216


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PostPosted: January 27, 2020, 10:20 am 
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It's been a bit since I posted an update. Last week I spent a good bit of time scratching my head and thinking about how I could almost copy Jack's control arm setup with what I had either already in the garage, or readily available.

Two must have's that I had to locate were a 37/64 drill and a 16x1.5 tap. After a few phone calls I learned the big NAPA store/ warehouse had almost anything you could imagine. Not quite AMAZON or Rock Auto, but pretty dang close.
NAPA - 16x1.5 tap $13 AMAZON drill bit for $11 and arrived at my house almost before I logged off the computer.
I already had drills and taps for the 1/2-20 work.

Facebook marketplace turned me on to another metal source. There's a scrap yard 30 minutes away that gets anything and everything. Up in the loft they run an fb and ebay store for the more valuable goodies.
Mild steel drops from the local machine shop 50 cents per pound.
Attachment:
steel bar for sale.jpg
steel bar for sale.jpg [ 73.08 KiB | Viewed 3275 times ]


The new lathe purchase got a nice little workout. Center drill, pilot drill, almost to size, then finish drill. Taking a really small cut with the finish drill gives a nice consistent smooth bore for tapping.
Tapping 16x1.5 - forget the tap handle. Get it started and grab the 12" crescent wrench. :wink:

VSUSP gives the control arm lengths, but those really aren't the control arm lengths. They are pivot to pivot distance. They also don't locate the ball joints to give you the starting point for caster.
Since I don't have CAD, I did a little sketching on paper (and in excel while I was stuck on a conference call)
Attachment:
arms sketch.jpg
arms sketch.jpg [ 25.69 KiB | Viewed 3275 times ]

With all the sketch done I did a little math. Each half of the control arm is a right triangle and A^2+ B^2 = C^2

The cut length of the tube is just subtracting all of the rod ends and bungs from C

I got started cutting and tacking on Wednesday night. Worked until time for Forged in Fire. :lol:
Friday night I finished tackup up and had what looked like a decent setup that matched the sketches and was within 1/16" of the VSUSP numbers.
Attachment:
arms 5.jpg
arms 5.jpg [ 117.59 KiB | Viewed 3275 times ]

Attachment:
arms 4.jpg
arms 4.jpg [ 112.85 KiB | Viewed 3275 times ]

Attachment:
arms 2.jpg
arms 2.jpg [ 110.48 KiB | Viewed 3275 times ]


Saturday morning I headed to the garage to scratch my head and see if I could work out rack placement.
After a couple of iterations I settled on the height and fore - aft placement. It goes through full range of motion with little or no bump steer.
To check bump steer I put the magnet based laser level on the hub face. Shot the laser onto the garage wall 10 feet away and plotted the dot through full range of motion on both sides.
Attachment:
rack 1.jpg
rack 1.jpg [ 123.17 KiB | Viewed 3275 times ]


I get free motion through 3 inches of bump and droop without binding.

Next up is decision on LCA mounted or inboard shocks.

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Too much week, not enough weekend.

OOPS I did it again
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17496

Blood Sweat and Beers
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=15216


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PostPosted: February 3, 2020, 8:19 am 
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TooBusy,
It’s nice to be following along near the beginning of one of your many builds. You always have a great innovation or memorable word to read. Thank you.

I hope your world settles down and travel reduces. Your work travel needs and Mine seem on similar paths although all of mine are domestic. I hope yours reduce and you get more time at home.

Following along with interest!
Regards,
Eric


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PostPosted: February 4, 2020, 8:09 am 
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ohmite wrote:
TooBusy,
It’s nice to be following along near the beginning of one of your many builds. You always have a great innovation or memorable word to read. Thank you.

I hope your world settles down and travel reduces. Your work travel needs and Mine seem on similar paths although all of mine are domestic. I hope yours reduce and you get more time at home.

Following along with interest!
Regards,
Eric


Thanks Eric,
I don't see travel slowing down any time soon. Honestly, it looks like this year will be a good bit more than last year. The new CEO has a different vision for the company than the last 2 guys. He's more into long term build the brand and spend money where it makes the most sense (cents?). The biggest difference is he knows that I need to be where the action is to be effective, so he signed off on doubling my team and and doubling my personal travel budget. There will be a lot of international needed for growing my team.

With heat and AC in the garage I can hop out there any night. Most weeks when I'm in town I spend a couple of hours a couple of nights during the week.

With The Boy getting married in May, I need to spend a couple of hours a couple of nights each week at the gym. Gotta look as good as possible for the pics.

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OOPS I did it again
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17496

Blood Sweat and Beers
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=15216


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PostPosted: February 4, 2020, 3:58 pm 
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I never noticed it before, but that looks like a pretty beefy topping on your build table!

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PostPosted: February 4, 2020, 5:13 pm 
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Location: Cornholio OR "Where the magic happens"
A heavy table top is good you can weld fixtures to it.
When you are done you knock the fixtures off and grind it flat for the next project.

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PostPosted: February 5, 2020, 9:50 am 
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Exactly. I wanted a serious fabrication table this time around. The steel plates came up for sale on Craigslist for less than scrap value, so I grabbed them.

I plan to build stuff for the rest of my life, so this was a good investment.

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OOPS I did it again
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17496

Blood Sweat and Beers
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=15216


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PostPosted: February 5, 2020, 10:57 am 
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I saw a "Fixturing Table" for sale at the local KMS Tools:
Attachment:
Table.jpg
Table.jpg [ 12.99 KiB | Viewed 3022 times ]


Pretty solid at 400+ lbs with a 5/8 plate top, comes with some of the quick lock clamps, and was $399.00. I thought that was a smoking deal and was wondering if it would be feasible to buy two, lock them together, and have a 48"x60" fab table. Before my mind started racing too quickly though I glanced at the price again, missed a number, it was on sale for $3,399.00. The dream dead, I quickly moved on. Your version is a tad more affordable.

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PostPosted: February 5, 2020, 12:17 pm 
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One of my suppliers has a row of large fixturing tables. I think they're 6 foot by 12 foot and a little over $20k each. But these guys didn't bat an eye at buying a CNC laser tube cutter for a few million bucks.

Mine isn't perfectly flat, but my fabrication skills aren't perfect either. This works very well for what I need to do. Like mentioned earlier, I can tack weld fixturing in place and knock it off and grind flat when I'm done.

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Too much week, not enough weekend.

OOPS I did it again
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17496

Blood Sweat and Beers
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=15216


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PostPosted: February 8, 2020, 11:09 am 
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TooBusy wrote:
The NEXT car I build is going to start with wheel and tire selection. Nail that down as step 1.
Then design suspension pickup points around a ride height. Pick my brackets and lock them down so I have the offsets from hole ceterline to mating face with the chassis.


Abso-freakin'-lutely.

And when you pick your tires, you need to make sure that there are compounds available that will work with your proposed vehicle weight. And then you pick your wheels to get the backspace you need to put the lower ball joint where you want it. And then you build inward from there.


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PostPosted: February 8, 2020, 12:29 pm 
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TRX wrote:
TooBusy wrote:
The NEXT car I build is going to start with wheel and tire selection. Nail that down as step 1.
Then design suspension pickup points around a ride height. Pick my brackets and lock them down so I have the offsets from hole ceterline to mating face with the chassis.


Abso-freakin'-lutely.

And when you pick your tires, you need to make sure that there are compounds available that will work with your proposed vehicle weight. And then you pick your wheels to get the backspace you need to put the lower ball joint where you want it. And then you build inward from there.


Yep, the learning process is a continuing evolution. I'm just thankful that I get to keep building and improving.

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Too much week, not enough weekend.

OOPS I did it again
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17496

Blood Sweat and Beers
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=15216


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