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 Post subject: Tuck's Duratec Car9
PostPosted: April 25, 2017, 9:33 pm 
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Hi all,

Every year the seniors at my school are allowed to do an independent senior project, and I chose to build a Locost for mine.

I am using the Car9 frame design and would like to use a high front hoop that will incorporate a windshield.

For an engine I have already bought a 2004 Ford Focus with a 2.3l Duratec and have begun to pull the engine (with all the OBD2 emissions stuff). For the transmission I am intend to use an NC Miata 5 speed which seem easy to find because most guys swap the 5 speed for a 6 speed trans. For the front end I would like to use Mustang II spindles and brakes, and in the rear I am using a Ford Explorer diff ect. Preferably I would like to find a LSD diff.

If you have any thoughts that would speed up the build process, I am all ears.
Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Tuck's Duratec Car9
PostPosted: April 26, 2017, 2:26 am 
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The voice of reason
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Hi Tuck, a big welcome, glad to see you here!

You'll also be glad to hear I dusted off my own frame today and finished fitting a couple of tubes in the engine bay. Now I'm wondering if I should wait to tack them in until I fit the engine a few times, we'll see.

I'd like comments from folks on how to fit a tall front roll bar / windshield frame to Car9 for Tuck. I'll try to get a drawing posted soon. On Car9 the dash is part of the short front roll hoop and it is already close to the driver to keep the cockpit from looking too long. I think we'll have to move the hoop forward a few inches and then just put in a seperate dash which shouldn't be a problem. The issue is where should the frame rails begin to taper. I think the upshoot will be that the roll hoop will be a few inches after the tapering for the engine bay starts.

Tuck do you have a build table set yet? Maybe you should come by place one of these days soon and look at my car...

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SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Tuck's Duratec Car9
PostPosted: April 27, 2017, 12:30 pm 
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The voice of reason
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Here's a screenshot of my SketchUp. Tuck have you learned some SketchUp basics? I can post the file very soon. I am going to make you your own copy of the model because I am having trouble keeping all the options together. Things like cage style and round/vs square etc., also my version had a couple of special mods for track use...

So it should start looking cleaner soon.


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Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.
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 Post subject: Re: Tuck's Duratec Car9
PostPosted: April 28, 2017, 1:19 pm 
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Yo, Tuck!
Welcome to the forum! Good to have a young'un around here, the place was beginning to look like a retirement home... :mrgreen:

That Car9 design is pretty cool. I'm looking forward to seeing your "Senior Project" take shape. Quite an ambitious project, good on ya for doing it! My senior project was named "Debbie" and I didn't do all that well... But that's a story for another day.

The Mustang II stuff is a good choice, lots of aftermarket support for it and lots of stuff that fits it (brakes, steering racks, etc.) The street rodder community uses M-II front end bits, so do some circle track folks, so be sure to check those kinds of suppliers when you need stuff. Do you know Speedway Motors and Lefthander Chassis? They have lotsa hardware you can use. Oh, what about McMaster-Carr? They're not automotive parts, but they got rivets, nuts/bolts, hinges, pins, etc. Check them out iffen you haven't already.

OK, enough of my drivel. Get out in the shop and build something!!!

Send us pictures every chance you get, OK?

:cheers:
JDK

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JD, father of Quinn, Son of a... Build Log
Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom


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 Post subject: Re: Tuck's Duratec Car9
PostPosted: April 30, 2017, 3:03 pm 
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Sounds like it should be a good, if ambitious, build. :cheers:

Tucker wrote:
If you have any thoughts that would speed up the build process, I am all ears.
Grades, relationships, build progress: Pick two. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Tuck's Duratec Car9
PostPosted: May 1, 2017, 2:39 pm 
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Tuck, I put up a Sketchup file on the Car9 web page. It's called "Car9T" and you can find in in the downloads page. It's just a start for you, let me now if you can find it. It has some square tubing and a Duratec with a Ranger transmission.

https://sites.google.com/site/car9buildit/home/downloads?pli=1

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SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Tuck's Duratec Car9
PostPosted: May 1, 2017, 9:45 pm 
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Hey Marcus- Thanks so much for this, it is amazing!
I've downloaded sketchup but I'm still learning how to use it. Any pointers or tutorials would be great. The good news is we have a build table already finished and level and have just finished pulling the 2.3 duratec out of the car. Hopefully we'll separate it from the transmission tonight.

JD- Thanks for the idea on speedway, and I'm hoping my senior project turns out better than yours did.

Justin- I think I have my priorities in the right order, hopefully they stay that way. Btw I noticed you've done a lot of work with the duratec, posts here and other forums. May need to pick your brain. ( any alternatives for the flying Miata happy meal- lightweight flywheel and clutch kit- unfortunately it's currently out of stock)


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 Post subject: Re: Tuck's Duratec Car9
PostPosted: May 1, 2017, 11:47 pm 
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Tucker wrote:
Btw I noticed you've done a lot of research about the duratec
FTFY...Honestly, the only work I've done "on" the Duratec so far is bolting it to an engine stand. Once I get one running, then I'll take that promotion. Of course, I would be more than happy to share any of the information I've researched. I don't always follow every thread closely, so if you have any particular questions that pop up later and I'm not actively posting in your thread at the time, don't hesitate to shoot me a PM. :cheers:

Anywho, have you asked FM for an ETA on when they'll have more available? Good-Win-Racing also carries a lot of Miata parts, and might be able to help. Those would be my Miata performance go-to's.

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Last edited by Driven5 on May 2, 2017, 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tuck's Duratec Car9
PostPosted: May 2, 2017, 10:47 am 
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Great start, Tucker. Now the fun begins. :lol:

Building a Car9 is my Senior Project, too. Just a different definition of "senior." :mrgreen:

Looking forward to following your build. Post lots of pics.

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My Car9 build: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14613
"It's the construction of the car-the sheer lunacy and joy of making diverse parts come together and work as one-that counts."

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 Post subject: Re: Tuck's Duratec Car9
PostPosted: May 5, 2017, 6:09 pm 
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What about this? Seems like a good price for a clutch and flywheel.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EXEDY-CLUTCH-PR ... Jc&vxp=mtr

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 Post subject: Re: Tuck's Duratec Car9
PostPosted: May 6, 2017, 2:10 am 
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a.moore wrote:
What about this? Seems like a good price for a clutch and flywheel.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EXEDY-CLUTCH-PR ... Jc&vxp=mtr

x 2 if it fits. I run an Exedy Pro-kit in DD/autocross civic si. Excellent kit!


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 Post subject: Re: Tuck's Duratec Car9
PostPosted: May 16, 2017, 11:10 am 
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Hi all – here’s an update of progress to date – I’ve built the frame rails (upper and lower) and welded them to the front bulkhead. I bent the roll bar hoop at the machine shop I’m working 1-day/week as part of my ISP (we got it to exactly 44” across).

I have a few questions – I need to nail down suspension parts or I’m dead in the water pretty soo
For the Mustang II 2” drop spindles on the front, we get the upper control arms from Kinetic vehicles. Where/how do we source the lowers?

For the rear, I believe the differential, axles, brakes, and knuckles can all be sourced from a Lincoln Mark VIII (’93-’97). An alternative would be an Explorer diff and axles w/ the brakes and knuckles from a similar year T-Bird. Sound right?

For the wheels, we’ve been thinking 15” but noticed SeattleTom used 17”. The 17” wheels are much easier/cheaper to find but should we try to get 15”? Also, what’s the rough offset we need? I believe from reading through Tom’s build log, his have a +24mm offset.

Steering rack? Any suggestions (I know it’s hard to do cheap and good.)

THANKS


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 Post subject: Re: Tuck's Duratec Car9
PostPosted: May 16, 2017, 3:05 pm 
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Quote:
For the Mustang II 2” drop spindles on the front, we get the upper control arms from Kinetic vehicles. Where/how do we source the lowers?
I got lowers from Speedway, only as soon as we took 'em out of the box we cut off the bushings on the inner ends and put on heim joints... OR... You could buy the pieces from Speedway or some other supplier and build your own.

Quote:
An alternative would be an Explorer diff and axles w/ the brakes and knuckles from a similar year T-Bird.
Yep, that's what I did. Look around in here, there are plenty of discussions of the Explorer diff mountings -vs- Mustang Cobra mounts. The Explorer is a better, stronger design. I don't know the particulars of the Lincoln you're talking about.

Quote:
Steering rack?
I have a manual rack, aftermarket no-name brand that supposedly fit a 79 Mustang. (I never tried to fit it on a Mustang, 79 or otherwise, so I don't know!) I'm currently in the process of installing a power rack on mine. Make me an offer, you pay shipping and that manual rack can be yours... :mrgreen:

:cheers:
JDK

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JD, father of Quinn, Son of a... Build Log
Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom


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 Post subject: Re: Tuck's Duratec Car9
PostPosted: May 17, 2017, 1:56 am 
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You can fabricate the lower arms or you can probably source parts and build something up like Jack's upper arm from oval track supply houses. To fabricate the arms you'll need to buy some threaded bungs you weld in the tube to take the rod end bearings and a collar that accepts the type of ball joint ( Pinto / Mustang II style ) you will be using. There should be good pictures in Tom's build log.

You can also get things like this from oval track catalogs. I think you would grind off the tab on the bottom and weld in a rear tube. I'm not sure how these are used in stock cars, they are called strut lower arms.

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There are drawings for the arms in the SketchUp models that are not perfect but should help. You can make a jig for the arms on a small piece of plywood that you screw scrap blocks into to locate the arms and collars while you tack them together.

You can use the SketchUp drawings to help you understand and choose offset etc. I know you don't have much practice yet with that so if you run let me know some example wheel choices, I can show the geometry in the drawing. We have adjustable wheels etc for that. I think I have seen good prices on Mustang wheels from from Ford Motorsport that are OEM ( so cheap and good quality ). You may be able to get reasonable stock wheels at a junkyard etc. With your car at 1/3 the weight, any wheels are likely wide enough.

I suppose 15" are not so available anymore, they would have been cheap a few years ago. Offset will depend on diameter. More than 25 mm would be good. The issue with the Pinto/MII spindles is they have a log of offset and King pin inclination, so you get a lot of scrub radius if you are not careful. You would like 1" to 2" of scrub radius and less is better, so we should try to avoid 2" inches.

Have your spindles come in yet? When the parts are in your hand I can explain how to look at them and understand what's going on.

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Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Tuck's Duratec Car9
PostPosted: May 17, 2017, 8:18 am 
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Quote:
You can also get things like this from oval track catalogs. I think you would grind off the tab on the bottom and weld in a rear tube. I'm not sure how these are used in stock cars, they are called strut lower arms.
Look up some older (1960's) Ford front end designs. That strut arm goes perpendicular to the frame with the tab you mention pointing forward. There's a long tubular "arm" that goes forward and inward from that tab. In old Mustangs, it mounted in a big rubber bushing near the bottom corners of the radiator.

You might be able to use it, tab and all, to fab up an "A" arm of sorts. The tab could be the mounting point for the "other half" of the A, although I'd weld the second arm on there, not bolt it. Weld a short piece (2 inches or so...) on the end of the second arm so that it's also perpendicular to the frame Threaded inserts for heim joints on the inner ends and you're there...

Sounds easy when you're just typing it. :mrgreen:

How-some-ever, building your own LCAs from scratch with a ball joint ring and some tubing wouldn't be a whole lot harder, and you can make the thing whatever shape you need. Iffen I was doing mine over, that's what I would do...

:cheers:
JDK

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JD, father of Quinn, Son of a... Build Log
Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom


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