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PostPosted: December 26, 2011, 12:23 am 
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signbandit55 wrote:
JD

{I think I should be JD1 and you JD2. Just sayin...}
causin


I can be JDD, since that's my intitals.
Happy Holidays!

JDD[/quote]


And I'm JDB.

Is it me or is it getting crowded in here?

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PostPosted: December 26, 2011, 9:05 am 
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We are Slotus!
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In our last episode, Slotus JD said:
{I think I should be JD1 and you JD2. Just sayin...}

And 1959 Lotus JD offered: "I can be JDD, since that's my intitals.
Happy Holidays! JDD"

And then Carguy: "And I'm JDB. Is it me or is it getting crowded in here?"

At which point Bubba spoke up: Bartender! I'll have a JD on the rocks, a double! Ain't we s'posed to be talkin' 'bout cars???

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:rofl:

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PostPosted: December 26, 2011, 9:50 am 
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Very Clever in that the A-arm is two piece. Are you worried that the parting surface between the two arms will become a pivot pint under hard braking? I have a hard time visualizing this loading stuff. But I think the rotating wheel under braking will push up on the front rod end and pull down on the back rod end. The farther away the bolt is that joins the two halves is from the rod ends the more rotating leverage will be applied to that bolt. (Or maybe not). Or, you may have it close enough to the rod ends that it won't matter. Like me, you'll probably hit the brakes and see how it does. If it moves? That's what Mig welders are for!


JDD

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PostPosted: December 26, 2011, 10:12 am 
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nick47 wrote:
I didn't want heim joints either so I went with rod eyes. More surface area and still adjustable for camber. My A-arms are two piece, with a bolt-together cross tube, similar to the shock arms on a stock M.G. We'll have to see if it works.

Image



Very Clever in that the A-arm is two piece. Are you worried that the parting surface between the two arms will become a pivot pint under hard braking? I have a hard time visualizing this loading stuff. But I think the rotating wheel under braking will push up on the front rod end and pull down on the back rod end. The farther away the bolt is that joins the two halves is from the rod ends the more rotating leverage will be applied to that bolt. (Or maybe not). Or, you may have it close enough to the rod ends that it won't matter. Like me, you'll probably hit the brakes and see how it does. If it moves? That's what Mig welders are for!


JDD

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PostPosted: December 26, 2011, 10:20 am 
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signbandit55 wrote:
nick47 wrote:
I didn't want heim joints either so I went with rod eyes. More surface area and still adjustable for camber. My A-arms are two piece, with a bolt-together cross tube, similar to the shock arms on a stock M.G. We'll have to see if it works.

Image

I see you're from Novato. I miss Sears Point (Infinion). I grew up in San Jose. I was part owner of a Formula Ford back in the 70s Bob Bondurant's son went through SCCA school in it. This FF had to be the heaviest one ever built. During the pro Ford races (which were standing start and went straight down the dragstrip to the hairpin) the cars would always end up in a big broken pile. Our car was usually sitting on top of the pile but it always went on to finish the race.



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PostPosted: December 26, 2011, 1:36 pm 
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I've been thinking about adding gussets between the cross tube and the threaded tubes, and originally drew it up that way. I think you've convinced me to go with them.

We're right on the bay in Novato, and can hear the cars at Infineon from the back yard. It's excellent.


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PostPosted: December 26, 2011, 8:11 pm 
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Made the track rods for the rear end today. Pretty straightforward. I've only tacked the track rod mounts to the rear end at this point. THe copper color is weld through primer. I took a body shop class on rust prevention and now I'm a big believer in the weld through and self etching primers for bare steel.

Earlier I cast aspersion at my Harbor Freight Air compressor and sand blaster. Turns out that my air hose had water in it and it froze. Since I grew up in California I'm not familiar with this malady.

When I put the motor in my bucket truck I was also a victim of frozen water when a little water on trop of the pistons prevented it from turning over. I removed one cylinder head only to find that turning on my heater would have solved the problem!


JDD


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PostPosted: December 29, 2011, 7:39 pm 
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I am working with a trunion front upright. Mine came out of a Sprite. Looking at yours I am not to sure why you don't do what they do for the Westfield XI for the top A arm. You could get your camber adjustment by using heim joints on the chassis end of the A arm or bolt the U bracket to the A arm using spacers.

I would send along a pic both I am unable to attach something with a pdf extension.


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PostPosted: December 30, 2011, 1:34 am 
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The pictured A-arm isn't JD's, it's mine. And I should probably start my own build thread so we don't hijack JD's.


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PostPosted: December 30, 2011, 11:52 am 
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i'll be lookng at setting up my front track and upper A-arm design today. Both the upper and lower a-arms will be highly offset, with the rear tube coming off the frame at right angles and going straight into the rear heim at the upright. The front tube will have all the required angle and I'll keep the inner and outer heim's perindigular to the frame and upright via short welded threaded tubess. I'll brace the front and rear tubes by welding them to each other via 1/8 inch plate.

HOpefully I'll be able to jig things up as well as Nick 47. Stay tuned for photos.


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PostPosted: December 30, 2011, 1:24 pm 
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The standard Spitfire / Herald type front uprights have trunions and are widely adapted for small racecars. They were even used in F1 during the early sixties. That was probably plain scary, but anyway...

There are pictures here on this site. If you can't find them, I could repost them here. The last time this was discussed was in EarkeyMotorsports thread about building a little formula car.

On those uprights the trunion was on the bottom and it is removed just leaving the threaded portion. That part is either turned down or cut off and a stub welded in it's place. A normal spherical bearing is then used in a cup on the end of the wishbone. This prevents putting any threads from a rod end under load.

So far as your welding table preventing frame distortion, that will not work. It is good for the parts to be well located, but be carefull with your welding and keep track of where you put heat into the frame. Alternate sides etc. When the metal is very hot from welding, it expands but the red hot part will just compress because it's soft. As the metal hardens it will contract but it cannot change shape anymore so the shrinkage will cause it to pull tension. Clamping it down won't change that, at least until the stress actually causes the metal to yield or bend.

Glad we have some more Formula Ford guys here...
:cheers:

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PostPosted: December 30, 2011, 5:52 pm 
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CS3 put me on to this solution for using Sprite trunion front uprights. He suggested that Westfield used them in their XI. So off I went to their web site and it turns out their American distributor sells their build manual for $50. A lot of money but then so is Kurt's book and if it saves me one blind design alley than it is worth it. The build manual contains a CD with a ton of photos from builds and historic subjects. As the 7 is close to the 11 it is gold. At any rate here is a pic of the current Westfield front end. As you can see the top trunion is rotated and slipped into a U bracket which is screwed into the top A arm. The bottom uses a bronze bushing with a bolt thru it. Simple adjustable and easy to fabricate.


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PostPosted: December 31, 2011, 12:22 pm 
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vroom wrote:
CS3 put me on to this solution for using Sprite trunion front uprights. He suggested that Westfield used them in their XI. So off I went to their web site and it turns out their American distributor sells their build manual for $50. A lot of money but then so is Kurt's book and if it saves me one blind design alley than it is worth it. The build manual contains a CD with a ton of photos from builds and historic subjects. As the 7 is close to the 11 it is gold. At any rate here is a pic of the current Westfield front end. As you can see the top trunion is rotated and slipped into a U bracket which is screwed into the top A arm. The bottom uses a bronze bushing with a bolt thru it. Simple adjustable and easy to fabricate.



Great to see these pictures...That lower a-arm trunion looks very weak on the Westfield design. Is it just me? I look at the spring load, the added load of the anti-roll bar and those two little straight pieces of steel that form tabs to hold the spindle on at the bottom and I get concerned. Shock loads from potholes, etc are very high at the spindle end. I think that's why the Herald, MGB and other lower a-arms are fabricated with a channel shape the entire length. I'd also go up to the frame with the upper shock mount.

Obviously, these guys have made a lot of cars and I could be totally wrong.

It looks like camber is adjustable at the upper a-arm near the spindle. Of course, Heims at the inner mounts would add caster.

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PostPosted: December 31, 2011, 12:41 pm 
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That bolt hanging out there in mid air where the upper shock attaches and the same thing on the lower arm doesn't look right to me. Just because they've built a lot of cars doesn't mean it's right. Look at all the screw-ups the major companies have done .


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PostPosted: December 31, 2011, 1:01 pm 
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hi JD!
I'd have to echo Photoman's comment. The upper shock mount in single shear doesn't look "right" to me either. If I had to choose, I think I'd go with the shock mounted in the double-shear bracket and the control arm on the "outrigger". I'm pretty sure I've seen the forward arm of UCAs mounted hanging off the front of the frame in a similar kind of arrangement.

My standard disclaimer applies: "I ain't no engineer."

:cheers:
JDK

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"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom


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