LocostUSA.com

That sucks!

So what options are you considering as you move forward from here?

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-Justin

"Orville Wright did not have a pilots license." - Gordon MacKenzie

Looks like a lot of unloved GM FWD 3500's out there, used in things like the newer Malibu. They tend to run about $500 or so. I think they came from the factory claiming 200 hp, and would have the traditional V6 torque. As I recall, the 1984 'Vette claimed 205 hp?

The first problem is the starter location -- FWD is on driver's side, RWD is on passenger's side, and the T-5 from the Camaro is a single-bubble passenger side dealie. I gave away by "double bubble" bell housing, and damn I wish I hadn't done that... sigh. But it's already living in a Locost of one of our members, so it's almost all good.

I'm looking into web sites where people have done this -- hopefully others here have some insight and experience, or failing that, some good jokes. Girlfriends' name is "Barbie" so the Malibu engine would be another layer to the whole "Lola" joke.

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Geek49203 aka
Tim Wohlford
Louisville, KY
Hayes front, S10 +2 rear, Lalo body.

what about a 3.8 like in the stalkers??

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I USE TO HAVE AN OPEN MIND ..BUT MY BRAINS KEPT FALLING OUT

Funny you should mention that. Local j-yard tells me they have a sc'd 3800 out of a Grand Prix, $800 including trans. Assuming I could sell the trans for a few dollars, which I'd put to wiring harness, etc. No word on mileage or year, etc.

What I'm wondering is if this 3800 is one that takes a 60-degree bell housing, or if it takes something else?

If I go with a FWD, the first question I have to address is the starter position. I don't think that the modern 3400 / 3500 motors have a tab on both sides where a starter can be mounted (unlike the Gen I iron-head motors). My understanding is that I'd have to get an S10 bell housing, plus an S10 flywheel, and probably an S10 clutch?

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Geek49203 aka
Tim Wohlford
Louisville, KY
Hayes front, S10 +2 rear, Lalo body.

The Australian holden 3.8 which is actually just a buick is rear wheel drive starter on the left side heres a rundown of a stalker with a sc 3.8 that is currently for sale .....Powder coated frame
Freshly rebuilt 1998 Buick L67 Supercharged 3800 with < 1K miles since high performance rebuild
ARP fasteners through out
Clevite 77 Bearings throughout
New timing chain/gears
Yella Terra 1.6 Roller Rocker arms
Port matched lower intake manifold
MultiLayer Steel head gaskets
Stainless Steel Valves
Viton valve seals
balanced to better than factory specs
Blueprinted block and heads
Full complement of Autometer gauges
Driver side seat on sliders (I am 5'4", has been driven by 6'4" people).
One piece Lexan wind screen installed (two piece Laminated glass windshield is available if necessary for registration purposes.)
Camaro T5 transmission with custom remote shifter
Detroit TrueTrac torque sensing differential with 3.42 gears
Summit racing aluminum rear end cover, makes it easier to maintain differential fluid.
4 Wheel Disk Brakes with fresh rotors and pads.
5zigen FN-01RC 15 inch wheels
Professional Paint job with Dupont paint, color is Lexus Ultrasonic Blue
Polished side and rear panels
Carpeted interior
Electrohydraulic PowerSteering using Toyota MR-2 Spyder pump and Chevette power rack
Polished Mark Scott high performance cooling system

...and heres stalkers site..you might get some ideas..visit the photo gallery...http://www.bruntonauto.com/
also search on here for ..New GM 3.8 V6 belhousing
Kiwi Dave

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I USE TO HAVE AN OPEN MIND ..BUT MY BRAINS KEPT FALLING OUT

This site is awesome and they have answered a few questions for me over the years, good guys ...

http://60degreev6.com/

Memo to self --

Before bringing donor parts into my shop, take them to the car wash and blast 'em off. Cause every bit of grime and grit that comes into the shop will find its way into the build, or onto my clothes, or into my lunch...

That is all.

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Geek49203 aka
Tim Wohlford
Louisville, KY
Hayes front, S10 +2 rear, Lalo body.

3800 and v6-60 crank bolt patterns for the flywheel are not the same and the 3800 fwd was automatic only. West Coast Fiero is one place that sells flywheels for the 3800 for use with a manual transaxle.

If you want a 3800, just find a late 90s v6 camaro with a t5 and save yourself some trouble. The camaro flywheel may fit the fwd 3800 but I'm not sure. FYI, the camaro motor is very unappealing to look at compared to the fwd 3800, if you care about that.

The mustang 3.8 with T5 from 94up isd another option.

The 3500 you mentioned in the pm with the dry sump is a bit over the top and may have custom parts internally, but if that is where your headed, go for it.

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Insert the obligatory picture of the B-tubes all clamped and welded here. Cause I got that much done today.

The big breakthru was in the welding department. I never had any luck -- or rather, predictable results -- using the flux core stuff. Yesterday, I melted down one of the big B-tubes with my attempt, meaning it can later be used for a shorter tube (ahem). So today I actually found a real welding supply store, bought some 75/25 Argon/CO2 gas (which they recommended) as well as some 024 solid welding wire.

When I got back home, I hooked up the tank, but realized I had no idea how to set the gas. I did have the Hobart tech support number, and quite frankly, I wish I'd called up when I first got the welder. That good ole boy walked me thru the complete setup, including using some 035 wire that I'd bought previously 'cause my welder wouldn't feed the smaller stuff w/o an improved feed wheel, and stayed online while I tried out some welds. Much, much easier. And with a bit of practice, the welds started looking almost sturdy.

The good/bad news is that I had some scrap by that point. And when I screwed up some of the B-tubes' angled cuts, I had even more to use for practice. But at least the B-tubes are in place, and things are making more sense than they did earlier today.

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Geek49203 aka
Tim Wohlford
Louisville, KY
Hayes front, S10 +2 rear, Lalo body.

News of the week (if nothing else, to keep me accountable so I won't slack off):

- I emptied my first tank of Argon. Or rather, it got so low that my welds now look like piles of mallard guano and they sounded like wet bacon frying. I'm tacking most of the frame together on the first pass, and figure I'll go back and weld "For real" later. Hopefully by then I'm making consistently good (good-looking?) welds.

- The front upper tubes are in place, so I can now set in my dead engine (just the block and oil pan) and mock up the motor mounts. I have the OEM motor mounts, but seriously, I think they weigh as much as the entire frame!!! But using the OEM mounts would make life simpler I think.

- I bought a wounded 2005 GM 3500 out of a Malibu for $100. The crank sprocket for the timing chain broke lose, causing valves to dance on pistons, as well as badly chipping the shoulder of the key groove in the crank. So, I trashed the block and crank, and kept everything else, including the wiring harness and the entire top end (intakes, heads, etc). The heads got reconditioned, so now they are ready to install on a nice GM 3.4. I figure that the wiring harness -- intact and pristine -- was worth the $100.

- The use of the 3500 heads on a Camaro 3.4 block should give me a 11.5-1 compression ratio, and they tell me somewhere over 200 hp. The 3500 heads (unlike the 3400 heads) can be used with the stock 3.4 pistons and stock 3500 head gasket. I'll have to measure for pushrod length, and might have to customer order those. I looked at some aftermarket cam shafts, but most are set up for more torque... and I'm not sure I'm gonna need more low-end torque on this motor.

- However, I'm probably gonna install a stock 3.4 with OBD1 ECU to get the car on the road. For at least 10 miles or so. At least that's my idea.

- Rear end is still up for grabs (uh, the car's, not mine). I still haven't purchased any rear end. I like the idea of IRS, but imagine that a good S10 rear end might be simpler, quicker to get on the road, cheaper, etc. I mean, all of those Stalkers can't be wrong... right? However, I still have my eyes open for an intact later-model LS rear axle assembly.

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Geek49203 aka
Tim Wohlford
Louisville, KY
Hayes front, S10 +2 rear, Lalo body.

Yo G03-
Sounds like your engine plans are coming together nicely. I was wondering how that would work out when I read about the damage(s) to that first one. As you said, the wiring was worth the 100 bucks, so not bad overall.

I debated IRS-vs-stick axle on my build. I debated it too long, and wound up revising some (a lot?) of the rear of the frame. Don't go too far a-buildin' before you pick one, and stick with it. Now that it's done, I'm happy with the IRS. If I was doing another frame, I'd probably go for a stick axle and a 4-link. Maybe...

Good luck, and keep after it! That car ain't gonna build itself, ya know...

Peace, love and procrastination-
JDK

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JD, father of Quinn, Son of a... Build Log
Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom

I spent some time reviewing MaxLessca's build log. He's one of the few of us who built a car with a live axle and then choose to saw the back of the car off at the roll bar and put in an IRS from scratch. He noted that his local roads often tended to be bumpy and the car was actually unpleasant to drive with the live axle. After his conversion it was a great deal more pleasant, enough to make it enjoyable as opposed to a chore.

So that's a real data point. I think it is influenced by the lack of lightweight solid rear axles available to us. At least the common ones from USA sedans after the Pinto are too heavy. If you have smooth roads in your area perhaps it would matter less to you.

The live rear axle builds are generally simpler, but the IRS builds are becoming more common and I think soon there will be some good guidelines on how to do it.

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Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
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For some reason, I'm stuck on the idea that the entire Lincoln LS rear axle assembly could be used on this car, possibly lightening up the thing by remaking the cross member. This would save me the trouble of cutting half shafts, etc.

I realize that many use the Miata rear, but all of those seem to be 4.10 rear ends (give or take) and with this motor I'm pretty sure that I'll want to be around 3.28 or 3.31 or so.

On the other hand... that solid axle design would save me some money and would probably be a bit simpler to build.

Dunno.

Tim

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Geek49203 aka
Tim Wohlford
Louisville, KY
Hayes front, S10 +2 rear, Lalo body.

My experience with solid axles vs. IRS comes mostly from multiple Cobra kits.

I was always selling one Cobra and building another and then finally having one built by the factory because I was so upset with the ride and handling. Until one day we sawed off the rear of the factory built car and replaced it with a very expensive IRS from the factory 1999 Mustang Cobra R model track car.

My gawd what a difference!!

It was night and day and the car finally drove like I thought it ought to. We've come a long way from the 60's (or 50's in the case of our cars) and there's no reason to accept the limitations that were in place back then.

It wasn't just a difference on the bumpy roads, there was a big difference on the track. We dropped our average times around a track we regularly went to by a significant amount. I don't remember the exact improvement, but it was so significant that many people came over to see how we'd set up our supercharger. They thought we'd added over 100 hp.

But a Cobra still won't handle like a well set up Locost. The mass alone makes a huge difference.

I personally see no reason to settle for a live axle, points or carbs. It's worth the extra effort to just be able to get in and drive and not have to be continually fiddling with things.

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mobilito ergo sum
I drive therefore I am

I can explain it to you,
but I can't understand it for you.

Is there a reason you're focusing only on the LS rear subassembly, and not also the MN-12 (Thunderbird/Cougar/Mk VIII) rear subassembly? Not sure what you mean about cutting half shafts, since the info I've found indicates that the LS actually has wider wheel mounting surface spacing than the MN-12.

I agree that the Miata and R160 have too short of available gearing for many higher power to weight ratio Locost applications. The 3.636 for the Miata almost gets it into the ballpark, but often still just isn't enough in my opinion.

_________________
-Justin

"Orville Wright did not have a pilots license." - Gordon MacKenzie