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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: March 13, 2023, 12:53 am 
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Thanks for the panel sealing thoughts, all. The latex caulk sounds like the way to go, Perry.

The chassis is off the rotisserie, resting at ride height and ready for assembly of all the parts stored around the garage, shop, wherever. The plan was to start by installing the drivetrain and then lifting the chassis from floor level to sawhorse level. But then I got to thinking about all the lines, etc. that would be hidden under the drivetrain and really tough to reach. So plumbing had to be done first. My back keeps reminding me I should have done that stuff while the chassis was on the rotisserie. :ack:

The good news is that routings, t@bs and br@ck^ts had been put in place for most of the plumbing. It was just a matter of finding my old forum posts and pictures and “remembering” what I intended. :oops:

The pedal assembly, master cylinders and a piece of the firewall got installed. Followed by brake lines, fuel line and e-brake cables. Engine and transmission mounts were prepped for later. Here’s the front:
Attachment:
IMG_1810-1.jpg
Attachment:
IMG_1811-1.jpg

Stuffing the tunnel as seen from the passenger’s side. More on that below.
Attachment:
IMG_1813-1.jpg

The big motivation for the getting the plumbing done was all the stuff passing under the diff. A busy space.
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IMG_1814-1.jpg
Attachment:
IMG_1815-1.jpg

The driver’s side of the tunnel takes a feed from the left mounted e-brake lever. The red thing at the lower left of this pic is the dash mounted brake balance-bar adjustment knob. The top of the e-brake lever can be seen below it.
Attachment:
IMG_1818-1.jpg

The dash bulkhead is a key structural element, so through-frame sleeves had been previously welded into the 1x3 across the bottom. Plumbing between the brake proportioning valve and the through-frame AN fitting was pretty tight. Think it got done without pinching the brake line. :shock: The fuel line goes through a sleeve in the 1x3 as well. Heater hose (the blue stuff) is used as a super grommet and to help support the fuel line.
Attachment:
IMG_1821-1.jpg

The e-brake cable yoke will install here after the rear suspension is added. Mounting plates for the driveshaft safety hoops and seat belts are also shown.
Attachment:
IMG_1822-1.jpg

Ok, enough of the foreplay. Time to install the drivetrain. The differential will be first. Hope all the plumbing survives wrestling the diff into place.


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Cheers, Tom

My Car9 build: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14613
"It's the construction of the car-the sheer lunacy and joy of making diverse parts come together and work as one-that counts."

Ultima Spyder, Northstar 4.0, Porsche G50/52


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PostPosted: March 13, 2023, 4:34 am 
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WOO HOO TOM!.
that faint glimmer of light just might be the end of the tunnel. I don'i think so but maybe.
Looking really nice!


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PostPosted: March 13, 2023, 10:58 am 
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This is getting very exciting, Tom. Geeez, you'd think it was my build [LOL].

It all looks super clean and so well organized. I hope my own build turns out half as well. Looking at yours, I wonder if I've put in enough tabs for P-clips for the various lines? My paint's not as nice, that's for sure.

I know just what you mean about reviewing your build log and "remembering" what it was you were going to do. I don't know how many good ideas I've forgotten about at this point. I'm sure they'll come back to me - right after I'm finished. :roll:

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: March 13, 2023, 7:10 pm 
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Well Tom........as a retired mechanic/safety coordinator/supervisor who performed employee competencies I am confident that you are now an automotive plumber. Same rules apply......sh!t flows downhill and payday is on Friday!
All funnying aside that is very neat work, impressive :cheers:

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'If man built it, man can fix it'
"No one ever told me I couldn't do it."
"If you can't build it safe, don't build it."

Perry's Locost Super Che7enette Build
Perry's TBird Based 5.0L Super 7 L.S.O
Perry's S10 Super 7 The 3rd
Perry's 4th Build The Topolino 500 (Little Mouse) Altered
Perry's 5th Build the Super Slant 6 Super 7
Perry's Final Build the 1929 Mercedes Gazelle


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PostPosted: March 13, 2023, 9:29 pm 
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It all looks so neat, and orderly. And thanks for all the high quality photos. Very useful for those of us who have yet to reach this point.
Be careful of your back - shame to have it go out at this stage.
Best wishes, MangPong.


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PostPosted: March 14, 2023, 1:31 am 
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Thanks, guys. The encouragement is much appreciated.

Larry, yes, there is a glimmer of hope! And this is the fun stuff.
Lonnie, my old forum posts have become my memory during reassembly. And I did decide to add a couple of riv-nuts and p-clips in the tunnel to firm up the fuel line.
Perry, glad to be an official member of Butt-Cracks R Us union. Does that mean I can bill myself now?
MangPong, your comments about being careful of my back were spot on, ‘cause today the diff got grunted into place. And that required some really awkward lifts.

The diff was elevated by lifting and then piling wood blocks under it until it was almost high enough. Then the nose was threaded through the (now scratched) frame opening. At that point a sling was put under the lump and the engine hoist was used to “unweight” it for final positioning and lining up bolt holes. The passenger side brake line had been temporarily removed from the Tee so it wouldn’t get scrunched whilst I was wrasslin’ the bear.
Attachment:
IMG_1823-1.jpg

A few more Tylenols and all will be good. :ack:

One question I need help on. I’m using an ’07 Explorer rear cover on my ’91 Cobra 8.8 diff because of its much improved rear mounting points (see below.)
Attachment:
IMG_1824-1.jpg

My question is how tight to torque the bolts connecting the chassis to the rear cover. The bolts are ½”x13 socket heads that thread about 1” deep into the cast aluminum diff cover. I’m not worried about the bolts, but I sure don’t want to strip the threads out of the casting. I’ve not been able to find a solid reference yet, but it’s probably in an Explorer maintenance manual somewhere. I did find a 24 ft-lb reference on the interweb, but that was probably for the rear cover to the diff case. I plan to use some lock-tight on the socket head bolts as they will see a lot of vibration. Help!


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Cheers, Tom

My Car9 build: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14613
"It's the construction of the car-the sheer lunacy and joy of making diverse parts come together and work as one-that counts."

Ultima Spyder, Northstar 4.0, Porsche G50/52


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PostPosted: March 14, 2023, 9:55 pm 
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Location: Claremont,Ontario,Canada
Hi Tom,

Here is an Image I found online for a 2003 Explorer.

Seems like allot of Torque like you say, but I seem to remember the threads are quite long so there is allot of depth you are threading into(almost an inch?).

I was concerned about the same thing so I converted mine into "studs" that were loctite'd in passively full depth and then had a nut to retain. I felt like it had less chance of stripping that way as the aluminum to steel connection was not rotating as torque was applied. I had room for that, but I am not sure if you do.

Our engines use torque to yield steel head bolts into aluminum so it is not unheard of.

Looks great as always,

Phil


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PostPosted: March 14, 2023, 10:21 pm 
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Just went out to look at mine. Those threads are not blind so you can engage all of them through the entire length.

You could run in a stud with an allen recess to full depth of aluminum threads from the front or rear, then perhaps a 12 point nut from the rear.

When I built mine , I had access to Alldata through a mechanic friend. It helped allot with the axle swap , torque specs and wiring diagrams to convert the harness I used.

Phil


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PostPosted: March 15, 2023, 2:18 pm 
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Thanks, Phil. That is exactly the information I need. Agreed, Ford’s 111 lb-ft looks high, but is corroborated by a calculator I found that was referenced by an engineering tech site: https://www.futek.com/bolttorque/american

The calculator recommends 88 lb-ft with a max of 118 lb-ft for a zinc-plated ½”x 13 Grade 8 bolt threaded 1” into 6061-T6 aluminum. Ford’s number fits this range. When a little lube like loctite is added, the calculator recommends 80 lb-ft with a maximum of 106.

Interestingly, the drawing shows 76 lb-ft for the vertical bolts holding down the diff’s nose. The 7/16”x 20 Grade 8 bolts I’m using here have 78 lb-ft recommended in most of the bolt torque charts.

Your idea about using studs for the rear cover mount is great, but as you suspected, I wouldn’t have room to install the pumpkin with studs in place. But I would have room to fit studs from the frontside if I can find the right stud with an allen recess. Alternatively, a hex head or socket head bolt inserted from the frontside would work as a stud if I can find an all-thread Grade 8 bolt in the length needed. A flat boss machined on the frontside for a through-bolt would have made a nice alteration to the cover.

So more research on studs and bolts is underway. If I can't find an appropriate stud, my default is probably to use the socket head bolts I have, threaded in from the chassis side with loctite and tightened to 85- 90 lb-ft.

Thanks again for your input. :cheers:

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Cheers, Tom

My Car9 build: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14613
"It's the construction of the car-the sheer lunacy and joy of making diverse parts come together and work as one-that counts."

Ultima Spyder, Northstar 4.0, Porsche G50/52


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PostPosted: March 15, 2023, 5:46 pm 
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Looking good. I see that you're using the copper-nickel brake lines. I used this for the first time on my current build. I was disappointed that several of the fittings leaked. Most of them took some additional tightening beyond what my practice has been with the steel lines. Two of them couldn't be sealed. They were replaced with steel lines. Before you coverup the access to your system, I'd recommend bleeding the system (at least out to each corner flex line) so that you can apply heavy pedal pressure and identify any leaks.

Ron


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PostPosted: March 15, 2023, 6:19 pm 
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seven13bt wrote:
Looking good. I see that you're using the copper-nickel brake lines. I used this for the first time on my current build. I was disappointed that several of the fittings leaked. Most of them took some additional tightening beyond what my practice has been with the steel lines. Two of them couldn't be sealed. They were replaced with steel lines. Before you coverup the access to your system, I'd recommend bleeding the system (at least out to each corner flex line) so that you can apply heavy pedal pressure and identify any leaks.
Ron, that's interesting. Did you use AN or inverted-flair ends/fittings on your copper-nickel brake lines? Mine are AN3 . I would love to pressure test the lines at this point, but not sure how to do that. Air pressure maybe?

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My Car9 build: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14613
"It's the construction of the car-the sheer lunacy and joy of making diverse parts come together and work as one-that counts."

Ultima Spyder, Northstar 4.0, Porsche G50/52


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PostPosted: March 15, 2023, 8:52 pm 
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Tom,
I used inverted flare fittings from the masters out to the flex lines. There I used a Wilwood IVFL to -3 AN adapter. The leaks were all at IVFL connections. So, your experience may be better due to all AN connections. Using air (either positive or negative) might work. I had hydraulic in mind by putting -3 caps at the four corners and do the two person open/close coordination to bleed the lines. The purged fluid would just have to drip into a pan. Then you would be getting realistic line pressure.

Ron


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PostPosted: March 15, 2023, 8:54 pm 
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seven13bt wrote:
Looking good. I see that you're using the copper-nickel brake lines. I used this for the first time on my current build. I was disappointed that several of the fittings leaked.
I use copper-nickel line on all my builds, I suffered from leaks until I broke down and bought a high quality flare tool, I leaks no more!

seattletom wrote:
Air pressure maybe?
Brake line pressure can range from ~800psi to ~2000psi, I don't think air will step up to do the job with the equipment we have in our shops. Your best bet is to commission your braking system with your master cylinder. Personally once I bleed the system I will stand on the brake pedal with both feet to put as much force on the system (without the engine running if using a booster, if manual brakes I do the same) and check for leaks. Once I get the car running and it has a booster I'll do the same 2 foot brake pressure test with the engine running and check for leaks.

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Perry

'If man built it, man can fix it'
"No one ever told me I couldn't do it."
"If you can't build it safe, don't build it."

Perry's Locost Super Che7enette Build
Perry's TBird Based 5.0L Super 7 L.S.O
Perry's S10 Super 7 The 3rd
Perry's 4th Build The Topolino 500 (Little Mouse) Altered
Perry's 5th Build the Super Slant 6 Super 7
Perry's Final Build the 1929 Mercedes Gazelle


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PostPosted: March 26, 2023, 1:21 am 
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Ron and Perry, thanks for the thoughts on checking the brake fittings before buttoning things up. I'll build the brake system out to the calipers and give it the two-foot pressure test. I should be able to see all the fittings and can check for any fluid leaks.

Meanwhile, I got the diff and the engine mounted without too many scratches to the paint. And then got the chassis up on the sawhorses and shimmed to level. :chev:
Attachment:
IMG_1834-1.jpg

Mounting the diff was actually the harder of the two. Glad that is done.
Attachment:
IMG_1836-1.jpg
Attachment:
IMG_1838-1.jpg
A couple of bolt length issues to resolve on the engine and transmission mounts. But as she said, longer is better than too short.

Once I finish deep cleaning and reorganizing the garage work area the suspension will go back on. Progress! :D


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Cheers, Tom

My Car9 build: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14613
"It's the construction of the car-the sheer lunacy and joy of making diverse parts come together and work as one-that counts."

Ultima Spyder, Northstar 4.0, Porsche G50/52


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PostPosted: March 26, 2023, 11:12 pm 
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seattletom wrote:
But as she said, longer is better than too short.
And there it is! Our minds are back in the gutter again , I love it:rofl:

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Perry

'If man built it, man can fix it'
"No one ever told me I couldn't do it."
"If you can't build it safe, don't build it."

Perry's Locost Super Che7enette Build
Perry's TBird Based 5.0L Super 7 L.S.O
Perry's S10 Super 7 The 3rd
Perry's 4th Build The Topolino 500 (Little Mouse) Altered
Perry's 5th Build the Super Slant 6 Super 7
Perry's Final Build the 1929 Mercedes Gazelle


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