LocostUSA.com

Thanks! Yeah I have frequently wished that the motor were a little lower, but right now I have a very "comfortable" nearly flat undercarriage. I currently have a hood, but it just needs a scoop. The scoop has to be a bit special though in that it has to cover the valvecovers as well.

My first build had a 302 Ford. It wound up sitting almost exactly the same. The problem isn't the oil pan, it's the bottom of the bellhousing, which I didn't want as the low spot under the chassis. (been there, done that, hit the speed bump...)

It is completely street legal as of last Tuesday!

However, it appears to have a cooling issue now that I've been able to drive it up and down the roads. Going to try to "seal" off the radiator section so that all air entering the nosecone is passed through the radiator. If that doesn't work, I'll be either upsizing the radiator (somehow) or adding auxiliary cooling (somehow). Ideas are welcome. Right now I have some old ebay radiator that I think was probably sized for a civic. The engine should produce around 350-450hp (though I'm unsure exactly, just basing on my brother's dyno pulls for a similar build in a mustang.)

Don't neglect the importance of getting that air out of the radiator as well. If ducting it into the radiator isn't enough, try easing the air's ability to get out.

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Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://midlana.com/stuff/book/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains
Both available from https://www.lulu.com/

This sounds like a riddle, however I think I understand. Would it be feasible to have a push AND a pull fan? Right now I have a pull fan on the reverse side (and no hood currently, so hopefully air is escaping.) I have room for a push fan as well. I ordered the radiator many moons ago... it is "CIVIC 2 ROW 42MM MANUAL ALUMINUM RADIATOR". I imagine a 3 row might also help? Thanks again.

Yes. Stagger the fans diagonally to cover as much of the radiator as you can.

The "correct" method involves a duct or shroud where all the air at one end goes through the fan and all the air at the other goes through the radiator, but that's not always practical, though a bulkhead inside the nose cone to mount a fan might work pretty well.

In general, pulling the air thru the radiator is the best way to use a fan. At the front of a fan there is a slight vacuum and that will draw air from all directions ( the entire surface of the radiator ). On the pressure side of the fan ( outlet ) the flow is mostly just from the outer edges of the blades which is a much smaller area.

For this to work the radiator needs to be baffled around it's edges to the nose cone. Also you need something around the fan itself to keep it sucking air thru the radiator as opposed from the flow behind it for example.

At this point, driving around town, you probably aren't using more horsepower than a civic might use, so that is pointing to improving your air flow. I'm not sure you can use that motor's power for any length of time, so you may be fine with this. You don't need a Mustang size radiator for a car that weighs less than half as much.

Worst case cooling is probably when you are going slowly, once your moving at some speed you should be fine. If you put it on a road race course things are a bit different though...

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Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.

Thanks for the advice. I've got a spare 4 row radiator that I might throw in if sealing the sides doesn't work out. Plan right now is to keep the fan set up (rear shroud with fan), and seal off the nose cone area in front of the radiator. I might try out the 4 row radiator as well (built for higher output civics, the quality is specially made for resale on ebay...)

So far I've changed from a 2 row aluminum radiator to a 4 row aluminum radiator. That roughly doubled the travel distance, but it still overheated, just a bit more slowly as expected. I then switched from 50/50 coolant to 85/15 water/coolant + water wetter. That helped out quite a bit as well. I also have a fan shroud around the back fan that "seals" the fan up to the radiator to ensure it is only pulling air through. I haven't added a baffle to each side of the radiator yet, but it doesn't seem like i'd need on one the top and bottom as there is almost not room between the nosecone and the radiator (the is probably 1/2inch at most on both sides.)

TLDR: still overheating after about 10 miles of normal driving from 35-55mph and a few stop signs. Going to add some radiator side baffles to make sure no air is getting "around" the radiator. Pics of examples are welcome. I can't easily slide the nosecone off, but instead have to tilt it oddly, so I'm not sure about how to make the baffles yet.

I am currently having to fill the coolant system via an intake port (highest point in the system) and feel like I probably can't actually bleed out air which could be my entire problem. Any advice on inline fillers or expansion tanks. Was checking out badermatic's tr-82 and that looks like it might work well (mine would be mounted on the firewall for height)

The trouble with adding radiator rows is that each additional row gets heated air from the row ahead of it. Think of it as having two 2-row radiators and feeding the hot air from the first into the second, so doubling the cores doesn't double the cooling, as you've found.


Forcing all the air through the fan is a double-edged sword. On the freeway the fan is off yet all the cooling air is being forced around the blades of an unpowered fan instead of being allowed to flow freely. As an experiment, try removing the ducting around the fan and see if that improves cooling at speed. Granted, it'll hurt cooling when stopped, but you're going to have to try things to see what's what.


Think through how the water flows and add bleed lines and a coolant header tank to self-purge air from the system. Every high point needs a bleed line back to the header tank, and the bottom of the header tank has a small hose running to the pump inlet. I use this setup on my car and it's well worth the effort.

The real solution to cooling is feeding cool air from a high pressure region and not letting it sneak around the radiator, then routing the exiting air into a low pressure area which will suck the air out. A properly ducted radiator can have a shockingly small inlet. Look at some of the early 300-400 hp formula cars.

_________________
Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://midlana.com/stuff/book/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains
Both available from https://www.lulu.com/

Are those fenders the aluminum ones from that online trailer place?

_________________
Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://midlana.com/stuff/book/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains
Both available from https://www.lulu.com/

Double check and think thru the plumbing to the pump, I forget the issue right now but maybe the heater hoses are hooked up wrong? Not sure what I'm worrying about - maybe Gonzo can help too.

For the baffle you need something like aluminum sheet or maybe bits of 1/4" plywood. this should be attached to the nose or frame and then along the edge of this you can use some silicone sheet. This is sold as baffle material at Aircraft Spruce. They also have special pop rivits, backing plates etc. to use this. You can also buy silicone sheet other places. It's rated for well over 400F, I don't think you need food grade. Don't use regular rubber, this stuff is very durable. Some of it is mentioned as having fiberglass insert, not sure about that - maybe they mean fiberglass threads molded into it?

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/siliconecowlseals.php?recfer=11865

This should make it easy to make something with a reasonable loose fit that seals tight.

Normal driving only takes maybe 25 horsepower on average, so this should be doable.

_________________
Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.

I've been reading along in this thread and trying to think of something constructive to add. I think what you're trying to remember, Marcus, is that Ford had different pumps for different belts. I can never remember which rotation direction went with V-belt and which with serpentine, but they are different. Turning a clockwise pump counterclockwise won't flow much water.

eh3, if you're using the same pump and belt that came on the donor, this point is moot. If you've changed either side of the equation, belt or pump, then you need to verify you're turning the pump the right direction. Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK44aYNHtYY

That any help??? I'll think on it some more...


JD

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JD, father of Quinn, Son of a... Build Log
Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom

I almost certainly have air in the system from having no way to actually bleed it off, so I'll order what I need to remote locate the fill reservoir so I can at least more effectively fill the system. I'll probably try to rig up something to force that air into the radiator tomorrow (avoided doing that so far due to the nosecone fitment issue I anticipate). I'll also definitely check that pump. The pump and belt are the same as what came on the mustang donor, however the mustang donor never saw any hard driving as the engine was a relatively new build in the donor. I literally only drove the mustang one time to my house from the place I bought it, then stripped it apart. It is possible that it has always had the wrong "new" pump.


Also, yes, the fenders came from fendersnmore.com. The guy already knew what a locost was and as such already knew almost everything I needed for both front and rear fenders. Just had to modify width slightly and provided tire/wheel size if I recall correctly.


My fan is on a switch right now so it is basically running all the time. Would that still be an issue on the freeway as I have it now?

I think the difference in pumps for rotation is also wether it has a serpentine belt so you should be ok. I was unsure what you should do with the heater hoses though...

_________________
Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.