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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: December 18, 2013, 10:36 pm 
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Joined: May 9, 2009, 1:44 pm
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Location: northampton ma
Hi Marcus. About time you built your own. Want any advice just ask, well worth the 2 cents' ha ha. I am sure you will impress.
Rad


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PostPosted: December 21, 2013, 11:40 am 
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Location: Paxton, MA
Marcus, congratulations on starting your build. If you could use a little help from someone who has a lot to learn, let me know. I'm just be of Worcester so shouldn't be too far away. And don't worry about the looks of it, mine is still just a garage packed with stuff I don't need :BH:


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PostPosted: December 21, 2013, 11:42 am 
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North west of Worcester. Not sure where the be came from.


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PostPosted: December 23, 2013, 6:42 pm 
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Location: worcester county, Massachsetts
Jeff, I'm in milford, MA. always surprises me hown many scratch builders there are around here

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PostPosted: December 24, 2013, 1:27 am 
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Thanks guys, your offers of help are greatly appreciated. I'm only getting a little time off these holidays, but hope to have another picture or two up soon.

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PostPosted: January 23, 2014, 1:03 pm 
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Making some progress, should be doing more updating here. Installed the tube bender on a little metal workbench I had. It's only 3'x2' but being made from steel it probably weighs at least a hundred pounds.

Bent up 2 roll hoops which both came out just a little over 1/8" too wide. So I think my car will come out about 1/8" wider than I thought also. I have also bent the two bottom rails and they came out fine. I have a couple extra inches of tube at each end so I can fudge things a bit if it seems to be needed.

I'm thinking I will cut and notch the upper rails for the engine bay next. In my car the dash hoop reaches to the bottom frame rails so my upper rails will be in two pieces and welded to the dash hoop. This is to give me more choices about how to make the required forward braces for the dash hoop. I may change my mind on this and then I could just cut that hoop and make the upper rails one piece.

One thing that slowed me here is I started trying to make some plans for the powertrain. It's a bigger subject than I though. I've been reading the "Speedtalk" forum for a whole month now and probably know less than when I started. My goal here is to make as small and light a small block Ford as possible. It seems these things can make more power than I could possibly use so that will not be a big problem.

One measurement I would like is how low the sump of a T5 is below the block of a Ford 302?

I have a lot more 302 questions but that's a start...

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PostPosted: January 23, 2014, 1:24 pm 
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We are Slotus!
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Quote:
One measurement I would like is how low the sump of a T5 is below the block of a Ford 302?

Hi Marcus!
Wellll, let me grab the ol' measurin' slinky and see what we get...
From the floor of the Slotus up to the ribs on the bottom of the case (lowest point) of the trans is about 3.75 inches. From the block to the floor is about 9. That gives the trans being 5.25 lower than the block.

The bottom of the bell housing, however, is only about 1.5 off the floor, if that much. Likewise the (stock) oil pan.

Lemme know what else you want measured and I'll try to help out! Oh, and by the way, I'm glad to know you ain't frozen into an Engineer-Sicle up thar in the frozen North-lands! :mrgreen:

Regards-
JDK

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PostPosted: January 23, 2014, 4:04 pm 
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Location: worcester county, Massachsetts
GonzoRacer wrote:
Oh, and by the way, I'm glad to know you ain't frozen into an Engineer-Sicle up thar in the frozen North-lands! :mrgreen:

Regards-
JDK


JD, OMFG, its been brutal up heayah the last few nights. Even with my little jet engine going I can't take the gloves off for more than a couple minutes. the tools never warm up. my feet (especially the bad left foot with the neuropathy) can only take about 40 minutes of standing on the cold concrete before I have to go back upinto my apt and warm them up.

dashboard thermometer in the HHR read 0 deg F at one point on the drive to work this morning...

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PostPosted: January 24, 2014, 11:03 pm 
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We are Slotus!
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Yo, Rob!
Dammmmmm.... That's COLD, Bro! Stay indoors, stay warm... Those temps can kill you. Seriously....

Hey, we didn't hear from Marcus. Maybe you better drive by his place on your way home, make sure he's still thawed out.

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Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom


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PostPosted: January 27, 2014, 2:33 pm 
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JD, thanks for the measurements! They were a big help. I used them to update my model. The transmission in the Car9 model is a TKO500 and it was 2 or 3 inches taller than what you described. I am also changing the LS3 motor into more of an SBF. I'm going to need to figure out a way to put a smaller flywheel on that thing. So far though that information let me drop the motor an inch and also get some tubes under the transmission.

I see there is a place, G-Force, that sells upgraded T-5 parts and also a variety of ratios with bevel and straight cut gears with dog teeth... :D

I did get my upper chassis rail parts cut out and mostly notched. I need to finalize the length of the cockpit side tubes. I had the chassis assembled with welding magnets, but it collapsed a couple of times so I'll need to do some better jigging before we get pictures....

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Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.


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PostPosted: January 27, 2014, 3:12 pm 
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horizenjob wrote:
I'm going to need to figure out a way to put a smaller flywheel on that thing.
How opposed are you to an on/off switch racing clutch?

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PostPosted: January 27, 2014, 10:08 pm 
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How opposed are you to an on/off switch racing clutch?


Probably not opposed. I had one on my FF, my recollection was that the friction disk was sort of a copper or brass plate. I'm not sure it really felt a lot different than the stock clutch. It has a really high first gear so it always took a bit of effort to get it rolling before you let the clutch all the way out. I didn't need to do many standing starts with it. I could still drive it onto the trailer though.

I know Tilton ( I think) has some fancy bell housings and little clutches, but they are expensive and only mate up to big old 4 speed transmissions. So sort of ignorant here. I don't even know what "big old 4 speed" transmissions are :)

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PostPosted: January 27, 2014, 10:45 pm 
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Quarter Master and Tilton both offer reverse mount setups that will drastically reduce the ring gear diameter and bellhousing size. Off hand I don't recall for certain, but I thought they typically used the T10/Muncie/Saginaw transmission pattern, which I believe is also shared with certain (early GM?) T5 transmissions as well. Overall compatibility would have to be verified with the manufacturer. No they're not cheap, but they're the only possible option I can think of to accomplish your stated desire to drop the engine significantly further than allowed by the standard 157T flywheel.

If it's going to see significant street use, or maybe even if it isn't going to be trailered to most events, I personally would probably lean towards sacrificing the <2 inch difference for a full size clutch on a lightweight flywheel. Not that I'm recommending to modify a part in any way that could reduce its structural integrity*, but racers have been known to shave the bottom of the bellhousing (or let the track do it for them) to increase clearance in classes that require the use of full size flywheels.



*Safety Disclaimer

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PostPosted: January 28, 2014, 2:24 pm 
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Driven5 wrote:
Quarter Master and Tilton both offer reverse mount setups that will drastically reduce the ring gear diameter and bellhousing size. Off hand I don't recall for certain, but I thought they typically used the
If it's going to see significant street use, or maybe even if it isn't going to be trailered to most events, I personally would probably lean towards sacrificing the <2 inch difference for a full size clutch on a lightweight flywheel. Not that I'm recommending to modify a part in any way that could reduce its structural integrity*, but racers have been known to shave the bottom of the bellhousing (or let the track do it for them) to increase clearance in classes that require the use of full size flywheels.

I don't know if I qualify as a "racer", but I had a race engine/chassis shop trim about an 1" off the bottom of my steel bellhousing. They said that would not cause a structural problem. Though the b/h probably lost its SFI rating in the process.
Attachment:
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The bellhousing bottom should now be even with the shortest oil pan I could find. And when the engine is mounted, the pan and b/h bottom should be even with the bottom of the frame. IIRC, that puts the crank center at 7 5/8" above the bottom of the frame.

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PostPosted: January 28, 2014, 8:02 pm 
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Do you have an actual engine and transmission yet Marcus or just going from dimensions?

I thought most of the older v8's were pretty short. With the normal 7 hood being taller than JD's Mallock hood, is there any chance that a combination of raising the engine/transmission and trimming the bell housing would get you the clearance that you need?

I'd be half tempted to get the chassis together minus the transmission tunnel, throw one of Jack's noses in place, and go from there.

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