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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: October 26, 2017, 9:04 am 
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Thanks Bill, I am glad I started with Micro. I just saw a YouTube that EFI has out called megasquirt part 1 tuning. The options on mega 3 are crazy. Almost endlesss. I have to admit yesterday was fun to finally see something work out.

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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: October 28, 2017, 10:07 am 
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When you guys measured your rear fenders how much clearance did you leave. I have 24" tires so I am seeing like 26" long and 13" high.

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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: November 6, 2017, 8:03 am 
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Gained ground yesterday. I had to recalibrate my coolant sensor that was throwing off my coolant temp 65 degrees. My ohm reading at 212 degrees for the sensor was off by 130. Had the car heat up to 215, fan came on and turned off like it's suppose to. The car idled all the way through WUE. Jumped on the tables and didn't do too bad but that's where the work is now. Which will probably wait till spring and take it to a speed shop and have them take it on for around $500 they will tune it in about 3hrs your driving down the street with a dyno report.

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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: November 6, 2017, 9:12 am 
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Steve I would do it the other way round. I would use auto tune and drive it around, it will tune itself. It will only tune the areas you actual drive some table entries you can never get to. But you can manually review the tables, if all the entries around it are 42, and the one in the middle is 88, change it to 42. After you have a nice running table, then take it to the shop for final tune. It will save time and money at the shop. They can probably spend the time on the ignition time, were you can find some real power. You can get it very close with Auto Tune.

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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: November 6, 2017, 9:14 am 
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Location: Waterloo, WI
Cool stuff, Steve!

On a side note, I'm heading up your way this afternoon to go to the Packers game. After 15 years, I'll finally earn my official 'Sconnie cheesehead. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: November 6, 2017, 9:27 am 
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Acerguy wrote:
Cool stuff, Steve!

On a side note, I'm heading up your way this afternoon to go to the Packers game. After 15 years, I'll finally earn my official 'Sconnie cheesehead. :lol:

Hey nice. I'll be home at 3:15 if you want to stop for a beverage. Do you know where your parking?

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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: November 6, 2017, 9:37 am 
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No, I'm totally going in tow with a friend. I'm just bringing plenty of warm gear and $$ for what I understand are the outrageous prices. Knowing this particular buddy, I'm sure he has an entire pre-game tailgating plan. :cheers:

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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: November 6, 2017, 2:49 pm 
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Acerguy wrote:
No, I'm totally going in tow with a friend. I'm just bringing plenty of warm gear and $$ for what I understand are the outrageous prices. Knowing this particular buddy, I'm sure he has an entire pre-game tailgating plan. :cheers:

Sounds good. Pretty much $8 for beer, nachos, brats. You need a horse collar those might be $18. Have fun.

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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: November 9, 2017, 4:45 pm 
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I like that autotune feature. It sounds like it will at least get you a reasonably well behaved engine.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: November 9, 2017, 8:19 pm 
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I have now tuned a few cars with Megasquirt. I have had mixed results with the autotune. If your tune is causing any misses, it will richen things up even if the miss was caused by being too rich as the O2 sensor sees it as lean no matter the cause. It can make the car undrivable and you will have to put the original tune back in to get home...sort of a pain.
Its good once you are close and its interesting to pull a log while its doing its thing to help understand whats working and whats not.
My preferred method is to take a log of a drive and then the let the VE analyzer in Megalog Viewer make the set of changes. I then edit any cells that look crazy and manually smooth things out the rest. Now take it for another drive and log session. Repeat. By the third time I have tune that is really close. After that, I will do logging on longer drives and go through the same thing. A few of those and it feels like a real car. You can do a good job of fuel tuning on the road.
It is worth it at this point to run autotune and look at your tables side by side to see if something jumps out at you. I have found that any changes it makes once you are close are really minor...but thats a good thing!
The one thing you really cant do on the road well is to make timing adjustments. Thats where the dyno comes in.

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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: November 9, 2017, 9:14 pm 
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Well My feeling on the whole autotune thing has changed. In fact the whole view on tuning has changed. On Sunday I ran it again. It went through the whole WUE map it got hot which was good, my recalibration of the coolant sensor worked it hit 212ish perfectly. The fan worked and cycled. As soon as it ran on the tables it was a lot different. Stumble, fumble, rev up and die. When this thing revs its like lightning (adding lightness to the rotating mass worked!! :D ). Anyway at this point with the temps already in the mid 20's in the morning and high 30's during the day I am all done trying to run this thing( can't wait to move to Florida). I will gladly pay one of the speed shops to tune it for $400-600 done in 2-3hrs and your driving the dyno is almost priceless. Ive gone through 3 sets of plugs 1/2 tank of gas. It really does idle and warm up nicely. Most gauges work, there are a couple things to iron out. I can now for the winter finish body panels, Coilovers, and interior. Oh and change oil one more time. That rich running starting out really plays hell with getting fuel in the oil.

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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: November 9, 2017, 9:23 pm 
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JPS Europa wrote:
I have now tuned a few cars with Megasquirt. I have had mixed results with the autotune. If your tune is causing any misses, it will richen things up even if the miss was caused by being too rich as the O2 sensor sees it as lean no matter the cause. It can make the car undrivable and you will have to put the original tune back in to get home...sort of a pain.
Its good once you are close and its interesting to pull a log while its doing its thing to help understand whats working and whats not.
My preferred method is to take a log of a drive and then the let the VE analyzer in Megalog Viewer make the set of changes. I then edit any cells that look crazy and manually smooth things out the rest. Now take it for another drive and log session. Repeat. By the third time I have tune that is really close. After that, I will do logging on longer drives and go through the same thing. A few of those and it feels like a real car. You can do a good job of fuel tuning on the road.
It is worth it at this point to run autotune and look at your tables side by side to see if something jumps out at you. I have found that any changes it makes once you are close are really minor...but thats a good thing!
The one thing you really cant do on the road well is to make timing adjustments. Thats where the dyno comes in.

Do you have a Europa? I just read a story from Hagerty on Facebook last night about a guy who bought a Europa to restore and it about ruined him. This was coming from a guy who owned 13 cars, I think most german, did his own work and it ran him through the ringer. It was also written very funny. Check it out its a good read The seductive trap of the Lotus Europa, Part 1 on hagerty classic cars.

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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: November 9, 2017, 10:16 pm 
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JPS Europa wrote:
My preferred method is to take a log of a drive and then the let the VE analyzer in Megalog Viewer make the set of changes. I then edit any cells that look crazy and manually smooth things out the rest. Now take it for another drive and log session. Repeat. By the third time I have tune that is really close. After that, I will do logging on longer drives and go through the same thing.


This is the method I used when my Lococst got its MS3 - didn't bother with any on the fly tuning. I too thought it worked really well.

Steve - try to start tuning from idle and go from there. I found it easiest to deal with small sections of the table at first to get them close enough then move on (basically low load and lower RPM - don't let the engine see high revs or high load at first). I spent several evenings puttering around the neighborhood. Can you post a screen shot of your ignition and fuel tables?

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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: November 9, 2017, 11:56 pm 
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a.moore wrote:
JPS Europa wrote:
My preferred method is to take a log of a drive and then the let the VE analyzer in Megalog Viewer make the set of changes. I then edit any cells that look crazy and manually smooth things out the rest. Now take it for another drive and log session. Repeat. By the third time I have tune that is really close. After that, I will do logging on longer drives and go through the same thing.


This is the method I used when my Lococst got its MS3 - didn't bother with any on the fly tuning. I too thought it worked really well.

Steve - try to start tuning from idle and go from there. I found it easiest to deal with small sections of the table at first to get them close enough then move on (basically low load and lower RPM - don't let the engine see high revs or high load at first). I spent several evenings puttering around the neighborhood. Can you post a screen shot of your ignition and fuel tables?

Sure I can do that tomorrow night

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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: November 10, 2017, 1:22 am 
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To chime in with a counterpoint, I used VEAL twice and found it worked really well. I'll admit that I'm spoiled and the base map they provide for the 5.0 is close to my setup, so the car drove okay from the get go. I dialed in the startup and free revving, then took it on the road and VEAL mostly dialed in the VE table to right where I wanted it. After that I got acceleration enrichment set up just right and the car ran great.

Later I switched to MAF but since I didn't have the MAF curve, I used it as the load variable for a VE table. I went to a parking lot, made the tune change, and drove in circles around the parking lot for 10 or 15 minutes until it stopped bucking. Then I went and drove on the road for an hour or so and by the end of it the whole thing was dialed in. I was able to take out most of the acceleration enrichment because the MAF was so fast-acting.

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