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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: November 10, 2017, 9:59 am 
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Location: Duxbury, MA USA
Tundra 7 wrote:
Do you have a Europa? I just read a story from Hagerty on Facebook last night about a guy who bought a Europa to restore and it about ruined him. This was coming from a guy who owned 13 cars, I think most german, did his own work and it ran him through the ringer. It was also written very funny. Check it out its a good read The seductive trap of the Lotus Europa, Part 1 on hagerty classic cars.

I do have a Europa Special. It has never been fully restored all at once, but with 100K+ miles on it everything has been gone over at least once. I am the original owner. It does run on Megasquirt BTW. It was repainted about 20 years ago and it still looks great. Mechanically, it is pretty solid. The really weak areas have been beefed up. I dont hesitate to drive it if the weather is good. I try to keep it out of bad weather as I dont want to deal with rust or bad grunge. I would say that my car is one of the best ones out there in spite of the mileage. Good ones are now commanding decent money. That is another reason to try to keep it nice.

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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: November 10, 2017, 10:05 am 
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Like Andrew said, get the idle worked out before getting on the road. If the car wont idle...well, thats a real PITA. Also, that is a place where the autotune works pretty well as long as the car is not missing. It did a really nice job on my WUE...no more soot firing out the tailpipe painting black circles on the garage wall.

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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: November 10, 2017, 11:37 am 
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The last time I ran it I didn't have a working O2 either. I haven't been able to figure that one out yet. I got WUE to work just by moving my graph. I know the auto tune won't work without the O2. I say that it wasn't working but yet I had reaction on the computer for AFR as well as my dash gauge. Both matched. On the Active filter on the computer it said out of range. I took that to mean not working, but maybe not. One of you guys might know better. If it warms up to the mid 40's I'll screw around with running it again. Right now it's just not nice out.

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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: November 10, 2017, 2:34 pm 
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Tundra 7 wrote:
The last time I ran it I didn't have a working O2 either. I haven't been able to figure that one out yet. I got WUE to work just by moving my graph. I know the auto tune won't work without the O2. I say that it wasn't working but yet I had reaction on the computer for AFR as well as my dash gauge. Both matched. On the Active filter on the computer it said out of range. I took that to mean not working, but maybe not. One of you guys might know better. If it warms up to the mid 40's I'll screw around with running it again. Right now it's just not nice out.

Well, you will need the O2 sensor to have it work properly.
What brand O2 sensor? If Innovate (thats what I used) then no need to make any adjustments in TS, but some others require having the range adjusted.
A datalog to see what the controller is seeing would be useful

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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: November 10, 2017, 3:06 pm 
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JPS Europa wrote:
Tundra 7 wrote:
The last time I ran it I didn't have a working O2 either. I haven't been able to figure that one out yet. I got WUE to work just by moving my graph. I know the auto tune won't work without the O2. I say that it wasn't working but yet I had reaction on the computer for AFR as well as my dash gauge. Both matched. On the Active filter on the computer it said out of range. I took that to mean not working, but maybe not. One of you guys might know better. If it warms up to the mid 40's I'll screw around with running it again. Right now it's just not nice out.

Well, you will need the O2 sensor to have it work properly.
What brand O2 sensor? If Innovate (thats what I used) then no need to make any adjustments in TS, but some others require having the range adjusted.
A datalog to see what the controller is seeing would be useful

Oh I know it's a very integral piece to make this all come together. I'll have to look for a data log I have not had to look for that yet you're right in that aspect. Oh I know it's a very integral piece to make this all come together. I'll have to look for a data log I have not had to look for that yet you're right in that aspect.

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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: November 10, 2017, 6:47 pm 
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JPS Europa wrote:
Tundra 7 wrote:
Do you have a Europa? I just read a story from Hagerty on Facebook last night about a guy who bought a Europa to restore and it about ruined him. This was coming from a guy who owned 13 cars, I think most german, did his own work and it ran him through the ringer. It was also written very funny. Check it out its a good read The seductive trap of the Lotus Europa, Part 1 on hagerty classic cars.

I do have a Europa Special. It has never been fully restored all at once, but with 100K+ miles on it everything has been gone over at least once. I am the original owner. It does run on Megasquirt BTW. It was repainted about 20 years ago and it still looks great. Mechanically, it is pretty solid. The really weak areas have been beefed up. I dont hesitate to drive it if the weather is good. I try to keep it out of bad weather as I dont want to deal with rust or bad grunge. I would say that my car is one of the best ones out there in spite of the mileage. Good ones are now commanding decent money. That is another reason to try to keep it nice.

Thats really cool. They are a funny looking car. There growing on me the more I look at it. I would love to restore one until I saw that show. maybe a drop in engine if a guy had to. I don't have mega viewer. I'll have to buy that. I guess i didn't know what it did. Sounds like I need it to do the driving around. The biggest issue I've had with not driving it is I can't get it to not die after you rev it. it will 99% of the time die.

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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: November 10, 2017, 6:50 pm 
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a.moore wrote:
JPS Europa wrote:
My preferred method is to take a log of a drive and then the let the VE analyzer in Megalog Viewer make the set of changes. I then edit any cells that look crazy and manually smooth things out the rest. Now take it for another drive and log session. Repeat. By the third time I have tune that is really close. After that, I will do logging on longer drives and go through the same thing.


This is the method I used when my Lococst got its MS3 - didn't bother with any on the fly tuning. I too thought it worked really well.

Steve - try to start tuning from idle and go from there. I found it easiest to deal with small sections of the table at first to get them close enough then move on (basically low load and lower RPM - don't let the engine see high revs or high load at first). I spent several evenings puttering around the neighborhood. Can you post a screen shot of your ignition and fuel tables?

Here is what I have right now.


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photo1.jpg
photo1.jpg [ 1.12 MiB | Viewed 544 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: November 11, 2017, 12:16 pm 
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I had Trudell Perfomance here this morning to weigh the car. I am so bummed it's heavy. I thought it was going to be 1000lbs. Nope. So anyway this is what it's at
RF. 329
LF. 321
RR. 334
LR. 339
Total 1322. Full fuel
Went out of my way to not use factory seats and steering and on and on. I was so convinced not using a doner car saves weight. Well it doesn't. I do have large tires though.

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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: November 11, 2017, 12:49 pm 
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Tundra 7 wrote:
Thats really cool. They are a funny looking car. There growing on me the more I look at it. I would love to restore one until I saw that show. maybe a drop in engine if a guy had to. I don't have mega viewer. I'll have to buy that. I guess i didn't know what it did. Sounds like I need it to do the driving around. The biggest issue I've had with not driving it is I can't get it to not die after you rev it. it will 99% of the time die.

I don't think its all that funny looking...of course I have been looking at it for 43 years. Its like family. Keep in mind it is only 42 inches high. The side view is the worst. From the front and rear it looks fantastic.
Anyway, if you capture some logs after you are satisfied your O2 sensor is working properly, I will be happy to look at them on ML Viewer and see if I can improve your tune. PM me with your email address and I will give you mine.


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Europa Side 74-4525R.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: November 11, 2017, 1:43 pm 
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JPS Europa wrote:
Tundra 7 wrote:
Thats really cool. They are a funny looking car. There growing on me the more I look at it. I would love to restore one until I saw that show. maybe a drop in engine if a guy had to. I don't have mega viewer. I'll have to buy that. I guess i didn't know what it did. Sounds like I need it to do the driving around. The biggest issue I've had with not driving it is I can't get it to not die after you rev it. it will 99% of the time die.

I don't think its all that funny looking...of course I have been looking at it for 43 years. Its like family. Keep in mind it is only 42 inches high. The side view is the worst. From the front and rear it looks fantastic.
Anyway, if you capture some logs after you are satisfied your O2 sensor is working properly, I will be happy to look at them on ML Viewer and see if I can improve your tune. PM me with your email address and I will give you mine.

I love that S2? I really do like them. I was going to run the car today. Put in fresh plugs yesterday. No way. 30degees and 20mph wind. Maybe Wednesday supposed to be 40’s.

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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: November 11, 2017, 2:14 pm 
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It is a 74 Twin Cam Special

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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: November 11, 2017, 8:48 pm 
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Is anyone willing to look at this with me that is smarter than I am. Has good questioning attitude. Am I off my rocker here?. The one with the enormous spring rate is my front. Thats the one that concerns me. does anyone have a different calculator to use and do a double check.


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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: November 12, 2017, 7:48 am 
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Yo Tundra!
I'll take a pass on being smarter than anybody... :mrgreen:

How-some-ever, I did go through some of the same contortions you find yourself in when I was "designing" (I'm over-stating my ability, again!) the suspension for the Slotus. Speedway has a similar chart for "angle correction" that you can run your numbers through. That angle off vertical of the shock/spring is the culprit. I think it comes out to 556 lb/in, but maybe I didn't use the right MR correction.
Attachment:
coilover mount angle.gif
coilover mount angle.gif [ 119.83 KiB | Viewed 439 times ]


As for the actual numbers, I think I have 350 or maybe 450 lb/in springs on the front of my car and about the same in the back. I'll try to remember to verify that later today when I'm out in the shop doin' stuff. Admittedly, mine is "track only" and I'm not concerned with comfort exactly... But, when you tilt the springs over, you gotta compensate...

Hope this helps! Good luck...
:cheers:
JDK

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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: November 12, 2017, 8:35 am 
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Thanks. I know the multiplier for angle does a lot. the other very big impactor is the droop calculation. that one hits hard. according to the directions on Bruntons page the droop of 33% is really what you want because you need so much shock left over for bump. Which make a lot of sense. If i chaNGE THAT droop to 50% its like taking 15degrees out of the shock angle. He has a comment on the page of instructions that says. cars with long travel and ground clearance can run a softer spring. cars with low ground clearance HAVE to have a stiff spring, because you cant afford the body movement. Great statement. I have to go to a bigger diameter shock to get the 800in/lb spring in a 8" long. I was SOOOO, not expecting it. I hope they fit. We'll see cross fingers.

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 Post subject: Re: Tundra 7 442
PostPosted: November 12, 2017, 8:37 am 
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GonzoRacer wrote:
Yo Tundra!
I'll take a pass on being smarter than anybody... :mrgreen:

How-some-ever, I did go through some of the same contortions you find yourself in when I was "designing" (I'm over-stating my ability, again!) the suspension for the Slotus. Speedway has a similar chart for "angle correction" that you can run your numbers through. That angle off vertical of the shock/spring is the culprit. I think it comes out to 556 lb/in, but maybe I didn't use the right MR correction.
Attachment:
coilover mount angle.gif


As for the actual numbers, I think I have 350 or maybe 450 lb/in springs on the front of my car and about the same in the back. I'll try to remember to verify that later today when I'm out in the shop doin' stuff. Admittedly, mine is "track only" and I'm not concerned with comfort exactly... But, when you tilt the springs over, you gotta compensate...

Hope this helps! Good luck...
:cheers:
JDK
So GONZO, do you only have and 1.5 or 1.8" of collapsed shock on yours? just sitting there taking just the weight of the car?

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