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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: March 12, 2017, 3:03 am 
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Joined: March 6, 2017, 12:44 pm
Posts: 41
Last nite put the front suspension back on. It fits but lower arm needs a small change.

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Today was spent mounting the rack. It went slow after having a zip cut disk rip apart and stick in my left hand. went inside pulled out the chunk of disk cleaned cut and krazy glue to keep it shut. The glue was holding so went back out side to see how I was holding the grinder. it was an odd place for a grinder bite.

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Mystery solved shod not hold a grinder like that without guard. I did ok working with one hand still got rack mounted. forgot that i was going move rack off center to give break master some room. it is a bit close with steering column. was welded before i remembered. also pouts the steering wheel closer to shifter i can live with it. steering wheel looks to big well get a smaller one later. column not mounted just clamps it mite still get moved.

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things are going fester then planed have to decide on the power soon. I like them both 4age or 20r ?


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PostPosted: March 12, 2017, 3:26 am 
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Joined: December 24, 2007, 5:11 am
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Location: Seattle area
If you are putting the power question up for vote I would have to go with the 4AGE. 20R can put out some respectable power but at a cost. Robust but at the cost of weight. The 4AGE is a more modern design and some variations produce 240 HP. Plus a lot of support. I'm using the 20V version and love it. A 20V is on our 'For Sale/Wanted' section for a really good price.

The photo is my engine, not the one for sale. They are they same except for the paint and velocity stacks.


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PostPosted: March 12, 2017, 6:32 am 
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Thanks Larry
The thing is i have not bin able to decide. I have not driven a 7 yet and was looking for advice from people who have. 7 seam so lite. Can adding 100 pounds for 120hp gain be bad? When i am racing i want more power than i need. How bad can 100 pounds change handling?

a vote mite help what would you want to drive?

-stock 4age carb 1600cc, 120hp, 95 torque, 7400rpm redline, 1300 pound car = 1hp per 10.83 pounds

-over built 20r carb 2400cc, 240hp, 190 torque, 7900rpm redline, 1400 pound car = 1hp per 5.83 pounds


Larry likes 4age, so did nick


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PostPosted: March 12, 2017, 10:20 am 
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Joined: April 23, 2006, 8:26 pm
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It's all by degree and mindset, not so much a one-time thing. Said another way, "how much could another slice of pie hurt my weight?" Personally I didn't care all that much because I knew what I wanted the end result to be, but I wasn't racing. If you have plans for sanctioned racing then every pound above the minimum is another anchor dragging behind you, but for the street, meh. It's all about priorities and compromise.

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PostPosted: March 12, 2017, 3:36 pm 
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Joined: March 6, 2017, 12:44 pm
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I think i have to add ballast of 200 pounds to race because it well be below min weight of E/mod and D/mod.

When i think about driving with 4age it makes me smile. Than i start to think about driving with 20r and my smile gets bigger with a giggle. The power and smile factor makes me want 20r. The fuel mileage and weight make me want 4age.
Mite just have to flip a coin.


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PostPosted: March 12, 2017, 9:03 pm 
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Joined: March 6, 2017, 12:44 pm
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Compared t50 and w50 trans gear ratio. thinking it would help me decide. After 2hr i found that it was was within 1mph at 3500rpm in all gears with 4.30 dif 205-50-r15 tires. 3500-4000rpm is where i want to be after shifting so it seemed like a good place to compare them. The top speed at red line was higher with 20r but mostly because it has a higher red line.


T50 and 4age 7500rpm | W50 and 20r 7900rpm
gears | kph | mph | mph | kph |
1 ----| 53 | 33 | 38 | 61 |
2 ---- | 95 | 59 | 62 | 99 |
3 ----| 139 | 87 | 91 | 145 |
4---- | 192 | 120 | 126 | 202 |
5 ----| 223 | 139 | 148 | 237 |

at 3500rpm | at3500rpm
gears | kph | mph | mph | kph |
1 ---- | 25 | 16 | 17 | 27 |
2 ---- | 44 | 28 | 27 | 44 |
3 ---- | 65 | 40 | 40 | 64 |
4 ----| 89 | 56 | 56 | 89 |
5 ---- | 104 | 65 | 66 | 105 |


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PostPosted: March 12, 2017, 9:07 pm 
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Joined: March 6, 2017, 12:44 pm
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that chart looked better before i posted it.


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PostPosted: March 12, 2017, 10:33 pm 
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Joined: December 29, 2007, 10:41 pm
Posts: 860
Location: Vancouver, BC
Tim,
I'd stick with the 4AG even though Greg is opting for a Duratec/MZR in his Mk 2 Locost. My Seven (sold it years ago) had a rather warmed up 4AG in it, and I quite enjoyed driving it though it did require keeping the revs above 3500 rpm in order to make power.

Looking at your suspension mounts, are the brackets at on the chassis level with the lower chassis member? I can't tell from your photos.

Rod


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PostPosted: March 12, 2017, 11:39 pm 
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Joined: December 24, 2007, 5:11 am
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Location: Seattle area
Tim,

How is your hand. Looked pretty swollen when you posted that pic.

I think 7400 is a low red line for a 4AGE. I have my rev limiter set at 8400. Don't hit all that often. Kind of scares me.

Cheers :)

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PostPosted: March 13, 2017, 9:31 am 
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Joined: September 22, 2005, 8:12 am
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Location: 4AGE in S.E. Michigan
I can tell you there is no way a 4AGE is going to push a Seven to 139 mph with out spending big $.
With a mild hop-up the best I can do is 115 mph. Dave W


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PostPosted: March 13, 2017, 10:59 am 
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Another 4age vote thanks Rod. My lower control arm is higher at the front mount to get some caster. The outer end where the swing axle mounts well need a twist to help line up, it was set flat to arm. I mite get away with heating and bending or mite be cutting part off to move mount.

good to know 4age can rev higher than 7500rpm thought that was where valve float started. 8400rpm is grate news thanks Larry.

my hand is a bit sore when i woke up today krazy glue had let go. could have used 4-5 stitches. glue was to stop the leak so i could drive to doctor. then when glue was holding and no pain i started working. Turns out when you glue a cut it should not be the whole thing. If you fill a cut with glue and then hold it shut to dry there is a wall of glue keeping skin apart. When glue falls off nothing is holding cut together. Use it more like spot welds so skin can heal between glue. or go to doctor.

thanks Dave w. 110 mph is close to what i was thinking a stock 4age could do. 139mph is what the gears math say it well be with 205 50 r15 in 5gear at 7500rpm, stock 4age max hp is around 6600rpm. and as we all know at speed air starts to get in the way and slow cars down.


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PostPosted: March 13, 2017, 7:05 pm 
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Joined: May 25, 2006, 9:39 pm
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Welcome to the madness.... I'm on here under dfdahl and my build log is on page two " David's Homage to Collin Chapman and SkinnyG". Every one can use more power for sure but the little 4age just made so much sense to me size wise. I boosted the power using cams and carbs and a little can of compression so it is quit lively. I guessing around 160hp. My chassis looks to be a good deal lighter than yours and I used aluminium for the floor and the seat back panel. Anyway check out my build and steal any ideas you want. Cheers David


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PostPosted: March 13, 2017, 10:12 pm 
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Thanks dfdahl good to hear of another 4age that has carbs. I well check your build log have so see how the carbs look. I did add some weight but my frame is getting very stiff. before i started throwing metal at it there was some flex, but not now. was thinking of calling it, a Stiff 7. Mite get me out of a ticket if it makes the cop laff.
since lower a arm mount was hard to see took some pics from below with frame on its side.

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and floor

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Spent today moving frame back and engines to front of shop. if you have to work in dirt then you want to make a hoist like this.

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kms tools cheep hoist welded it to hitch extender so it can be use it with most hitches. Less than $200 to make. have made 3 of them for friends that saw me use it and came back with parts to make one. I have picked up the front of cars and moved them where i wanted.


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PostPosted: March 13, 2017, 11:02 pm 
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Joined: December 30, 2007, 1:21 am
Posts: 546
Location: North Van., BC
Welcome to the forum.

I was glad to see a build with 4age in the title. But the 20r is a real powerhouse. I think that you should go for it. Umm, how much do you want for the 4age carbs. :D

Seriously, from a traditional point of view the 4age seems like a perfect fit and it seems to take a bit of abuse from time to time. I rebuilt one, had it in the frame for a lot of the work and then ended up buying a wiring harness that had a beat-up but running 4age attached. I put the old engine for doing the wiring work, then test starting the engine to see that everything worked, then a little run down the driveway and then, 7 years later it's still in the car. It's never had even a minor problem. My shiny rebuilt engine has yet to be used despite some enthusiastic driving from time to time.

As far as ground clearance goes I was a bit apprehensive about my minimal pan clearance. Sorry for the crappy photo but you can see the oil pan plug. The block of wood is 3 3/8" high. I was very cautious of speed bumps for quite awhile but I came to the conclusion that because the pan is just behind the front wheels, speed humps at least, aren't a problem. The front wheels go up and so does the pan. The only problem would be something like a rock but that's not too common on the roads that I drive on. I'll take my chances on that one. Putting the engine at that clearance let me have the hood line etc. that I wanted.

Some folks that start these projects just kind of fade away. But I think that a guy who crazy glues a gash back together and goes back to work on the car stands a pretty good chance of ending up with a fun car.

Good luck with decision.

Ron


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PostPosted: March 14, 2017, 12:36 am 
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Joined: March 6, 2017, 12:44 pm
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thanks sevenesqueron first vote for 20r. i may need the power after adding extra bracing, steel floor and seat back.
the side drafts can be on the 20r with new jets and chokes. the carb that is on it is crap it stuck wide open and sent last car into a spin.
spending the next day or 2 on 20r and 4age they have bin sitting with a pile of parts. time to see if the parts fit and what i am missing.


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