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PostPosted: May 27, 2018, 5:24 pm 
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Location: North Van., BC
Thanks Dave for the info about both injector cleaning and the ability of the pulley to slip and throw the timing mark off. I had no idea that it could do that.

It doesn't smooth out. I'm betting it's some form of fuel starvation. I'll work away trying things until I find it.

Ron

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PostPosted: July 6, 2020, 4:56 pm 
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Location: North Van., BC
The car ran fine for the rest of 2018. Started it regularly until this past mid-winter. Starts and dies or doesn't start.
Put fuel in the intake and it runs fine until the fuel is used up.

Tried a new fuel pump, changed the fuel filter, swapped out the ECU, don't know if the ECU is any good, fuel injectors squirt cleaner when hooked to a battery.

Anyone know what the minimum required fuel pressure is? It seems like the injectors aren't getting any power but I don't know how to check that.

Hoping someone has an idea because I'd hate to have to switch to carbs.

Ron

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PostPosted: July 6, 2020, 4:57 pm 
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Location: North Van., BC
The car ran fine for the rest of 2018. Started it regularly until this past mid-winter. Starts and dies or doesn't start.
Put fuel in the intake and it runs fine until the fuel is used up.

Tried a new fuel pump, changed the fuel filter, swapped out the ECU, don't know if the ECU is any good, fuel injectors squirt cleaner when hooked to a battery.

Anyone know what the minimum required fuel pressure is? It seems like the injectors aren't getting any power but I don't know how to check that.

Hoping someone has an idea because I'd hate to have to switch to carbs.

Ron

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PostPosted: July 7, 2020, 8:03 am 
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Joined: September 22, 2005, 8:12 am
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Location: 4AGE in S.E. Michigan
Ron
The GTS fuel pressure spec should be 44-48 psi. [but the 4AGE runs better at 49-50 psi] If you have an adjustable reg.
I can loan you another ECU for testing, but my guess it that you are not getting a good ground for the injectors.
There should be several brown wires on an eyelet that attaches to the intake manifold. Verify that you have a good clean connection for these ECU grounding wires.
A digital VOM will not pick up the injector signal, to short a pulse. You need an old needle type or a noid lite to verify that you are getting voltage to the injectors.
If you verify voltage at the injectors, then you will have to trace the wires to and from the ECU for a open circuit.
Davew


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PostPosted: July 7, 2020, 11:31 pm 
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Location: North Van., BC
Hi Dave,

I did check and clean the brown wires grounding to the intake manifold. I have an old style meter, I'll try and detect any current pulse to the injectors.

I did purchase a new fuel pump and it didn't make any difference. I think that I have to get a new fuel pressure gage and recheck the pressure of the old pump and new one. Thinking back, the first sign of trouble was the missing a couple of years ago so I've got to establish for sure that fuel delivery isn't the problem.

Tracing the wires back from the injectors is difficult because they're under the manifold and hidden by a loom.

I have a schematic that shows "EFI Resistor" powered by a Blk-Org wire from the Ign SW, pin 7, with two red wires going to a red or blue wire on the injector side. I don't know where to find the "EFI Resistor" or even what it looks like. Any ideas?

Thanks,

Ron

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PostPosted: July 8, 2020, 5:19 am 
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Location: Sunny-Okanagan, Canada, eh?!
Might be the injector resistor. Looks like maybe half a pack of smokes, finned aluminum?

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PostPosted: July 8, 2020, 1:30 pm 
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Location: North Van., BC
OK, knock me down with a feather. It started unexpectedly. I had an old analog multi meter so I put it on volts and connected it to one of the injector leads. Cranked engine and it read 12 volts. Didn't notice if the needle fluctuated or not. Switched terminals and again got 12 volts and then the engine started running with one injector lead disconnected. I almost fell over in shock. I've been trying to get it going for so long.

I've got the windshield off etc., the car half disassembled, so I'm going to put everything back together and if the car starts go get a temporary testing permit. I can tell the engine has a miss but it didn't stall etc. driving back and forth in my driveway.

So I'm amazed because things don't usually cure them selves but I'm not complaining.

Hi Greg, long time no see. Is this the resistor?

Both you guys know the history of the 4 AGE. I'm sort of sad to see the way things have gone. At one time the Dori Kaze drift crowd was a very strong group in the Vancouver area. There were folks that had parts etc. and one guy, Brian, 86 Tuning who was a whiz with the engine. Now the site is inactive and it seems like the popularity of the engine has expired.

Also I see the website for Club 4 AGE is inactive.

Any other sites that are similar to Dori-Kazi or Club 4 AGE?

I'll post an update later if it actually starts again and I get to go for a drive.

Thanks for your help.

Ron


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PostPosted: July 8, 2020, 2:06 pm 
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Location: Sunny-Okanagan, Canada, eh?!
Yes, that's the resistor.

I'm in lurk mode, and I like checking in on your posts.

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PostPosted: July 9, 2020, 7:39 am 
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Joined: September 22, 2005, 8:12 am
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Location: 4AGE in S.E. Michigan
Since you are seeing current at the injector, there is one more possibility. It could be the AFM. There is a Fuel cut off switch, inside. It may have stuck in closed position. [ from setting for a several months time? ] If you moved or bump the AFM it may have freed up the switch. If it happens again try a few taps against the AFM. If you are in the shop you could move the AFM flap inside, by hand, and verify the electrical circuit to the fuel pump is opening and closing. If that seem to be the problem you will need to take the top off the AFM and clean it with electrical cleaner. Just as a preventive measure, you may want to get cleaner designed just for MAF/AFM and clean the inner surfaces.
Davew


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PostPosted: July 12, 2020, 7:25 pm 
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So I made contact with Brian. He's been a mainstay of the Dori-Kazi crowd and is a Lexus/Toyota tech.

He used a paper clip as a jumper and managed to get the codes from the ECU. Actually there weren't any. We tried a few things and not too much changed. He left me with a fuel pressure gage that uses the banjo fitting on the fuel filter as well as a coil. Pulling the spark leads one by one hadn't made much noticeable effect.

Fuel pressure read 70 psi at the filter.

Swapped coil, no difference. New plugs, no difference. Swapped complete distributor and cap, no difference.

Starting to beat my head against the wall. What else could I possibly try? About the only thing I could think of the the fuel pressure regulator. Swapped it and the engine ran well enough that I was able to get a one day testing permit and try multiple drives. It's still missing, evens out at higher revs. Still have to get that front pulley swapped out because lack of a dependable timing mark is a nuisance.

After I swapped out the fuel pressure regulator I noticed that the fuel pressure gage read about 35 psi. Big puzzle, why would something after the gage cause a pressure drop?

So: car still missing. If I put the air cleaner on it's worse. I'm going to get new spark plug wires and install a replacement front pulley with a usable timing mark.

Still not there yet but at least I got a chance to drive it.

Ron


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PostPosted: July 13, 2020, 12:39 am 
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Might be related, might not. Might just fall into "cool story bro:"

End of last year my 4AGE was running a bit..... odd. The odd missfire here and there, especially cold.

Then over winter I had to move the car, and it chugged badly and smoked horribly.

This spring, It ran like absolute crap, like it was on one cylinder, with PLUMES of smoke. Three plugs were soaked in gas. And through a comedy of updates, I wasn't able to get Megasquirt to talk to my laptop anymore.

I tried different ignition module (I'm using Ford EDIS) and a different coil, I traced all the wiring from the ECU to the ignition and injectors, even change out the injectors.

End result? Plug wires. Wires fixed it.

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PostPosted: July 14, 2020, 7:40 pm 
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Location: North Van., BC
I did check the plug wires and one was sketchy so I installed a new set.

Also changed out the front pulley, nice to have a timing mark that lines up where it should at TDC.

Engine started, seemed marginally smoother but the timing mark was way off. Rotating the distributor didn't bring it back to TDC. Checked that I was't a tooth off. Nope rotor is where it should be.

Now it's back to not starting. :BH: Enough for today. Can only beat my head against the wall for so long.

Ron

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PostPosted: July 15, 2020, 8:58 am 
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Joined: September 22, 2005, 8:12 am
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Location: 4AGE in S.E. Michigan
Ron
You are saying you run out of slot adjustment on the distributor?
First set down and have a beer or two, before you start to pull your hair out :ack:
Tomorrow
1] double check the pulley timing mark, relative to the piston at TDC, using a dowel thru the plug hole.
2] Check distributor gear location positions relative to the distributor body, dots align on gear and body when inserted. [requires cam cover removal]
3] Check that the exhaust cam has not jumped a belt tooth. Going that far might, you might as well check, the intake and crank gear alignment.
Davew


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PostPosted: July 15, 2020, 11:11 am 
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I did a video on changing a 4AGE timing belt

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PostPosted: July 15, 2020, 12:03 pm 
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Just in case: I think you need the paper clip jumper installed while using the timing light.

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