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PostPosted: May 27, 2017, 8:25 pm 
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I'm continuing to consider some new arrangements of the scuttle/dash/instrument package. Raising up the fiberglass scuttle shell is primary among the trials. There's a lot of "junk" on the donor engine up front where the nose and hood meet. Raising up the nose and scuttle would give me more space under the hood, and reduce the size of a hood scoop that will likely be necessary to clear said "junk."

Here's the scuttle raised up 1" and with a paper stand-in for the donor instrument cluster. I think I would lower the entire bottom edge 1" too and that might yield enough space for the donor instrument cluster. It's not the most wonderful thing in the world, but I'd get a lot of free instruments plus all the dummy lights and warning indicators like "check engine" and similar things. I have the entire wiring harness, so should be able to make this cluster work.
Attachment:
DSC03768-1-Inch.JPG


The instrument cluster is chock full of gauges and indicators. It would cost hundreds to duplicate it with new gauges, etc.
Attachment:
DSC03758.JPG


I have to be careful because raising the scuttle changes the proportions of the car. the top of the rear (boot) section should be at least level with the top of the scuttle, probably higher. Raised up 1-1/2", makes the difference too great.
Attachment:
DSC03756.JPG


I have additional panels all cut and trimmed, but need to start integrating the scuttle, dash hoop and footwell panels into a workable system before I start committing to anything by permanently welding things in place.
Attachment:
DSC03773.JPG


I need to spend some time sketching out alternatives. Right now, I'm leaning towards the firewall & engine compartment shelf being anchored in the chassis independent of the scuttle. The scuttle would be removable, but the dash board & instrument cluster would be independent of it and located on the chassis on a hinged attachment, swinging towards the rear of the car. So, right now, I'm thinking a 3-part system. It's all subject to change as I experiment and try to flesh out a workable, practical arrangement.


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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: June 2, 2017, 8:25 pm 
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Well, my previous configuration looked pretty cool, but lacked some practical features I need. After a few days spent re-hosting a website, I'm now back on noodling out my dash hoop, scuttle mounting, firewall and dashboard layout. I've cut out a new feature for my tilt steering wheel, but added material back in elsewhere to deal with needed dash hoop structure. It's all pretty rough cardboard, but it is helpful to my thinking.

It may look pretty much the same to most of you:
Attachment:
DSC03783.JPG


Besides going back and accurately locating the shifter stub, which is an inch or two forward of where I was showing it before, I needed the steering wheel cut out:
Attachment:
DSC03785.JPG


. . . and I needed to add some more edge material at the passenger side.
Attachment:
DSC03784.JPG


The Mustang instrument cluster is proving to be awkward to deal with. It's physically fairly big, and it is sculpted in a way that makes a simple, clean mounting of it on a flat dashboard difficult. I haven't come up with a satisfactory scheme yet. I'm debating whether I want to put a lot of effort into doing it at all. Maybe some simple, stand-alone gauges would be worth the expense, if they simplify the construction of the dash hoop & dashboard?

I have the Mustang wiring harness, which makes it an easy fit-up te stock panel component-wise. Not knowing how the Mustang ECU will behave if it can't find the stock instrument panel at start-up/self-test time is clouding my thinking. Will it be a problem, me wonders? The outline on the white paper is the visible portion of the panel. The unit and its mounts are from 7/8" to 1" wider than the visible area, depending on where you're looking:
Attachment:
DSC03788.JPG

Attachment:
DSC03786.JPG


When you add in some elementary dash hoop structure, the space conflict gets pretty obvious.
Attachment:
DSC03789.JPG


That's it for today. I'm going to check around tonight for some simple, economical alternatives to the Mustang instrument panel.

Cheers,


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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: June 2, 2017, 9:11 pm 
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You'll have to decide if it's economical, but the SN95 engine and ecu in my 65 mustang hook up easily to the set of Autometer gages that I used. The speedometer takes the vss signal from the stock sending unit on the trans and is very simple to calibrate. You'd proly want to use the 2 1/16" secondary gages and if you are using the stock fuel pump/sending unit assembly, Autometer has one that matches the 15 ohm empty / 160 ohm full of the Ford unit (in the Ultra-lite it's 4318).


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PostPosted: June 3, 2017, 11:40 am 
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@seven13bt

Thanks so much for that information. Autometer has some really cool stuff, but it's a little expensive for my budget. I looked around at some other companies too. I can't say I've found a satisfactory solution yet, but I think I've found a workable one for my Phase I (just get it working and registered) vehicle.

Looking at this outfit (http://www.americanmuscle.com/simco-mus ... 04-gt.html), plus some how-to videos on the Internet, I think I can ditch the big honking bezel on my current and surface mount it to the front of the dash. I swiped this still from a video as an illustration. The 4 yellow arrows are to the mounting tabs.
Attachment:
Mustang-Cluster.jpg


I'd definitely have to make some kind of bezel for it, and I really don't want another job to do at this point, but I don't want to spend $600-$900 for new gauges right now either. I'd only need the bezel, 4 screw holes, slots for the two harness plugs and some clear plastic to cover the dials.

I'm going to keep looking, but I'll take the above to be my fall-back solution if I can't find something better for a couple of hundred bucks.

Thanks again,

Lonnie


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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: June 3, 2017, 2:13 pm 
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The great thing about keeping the big honking bezel is that you can see it better in bright lights. With the bezel you'll be able to see the gauges more often. Another "umbrella" lid on top to shade it would make it even more useful.

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PostPosted: June 3, 2017, 4:52 pm 
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My suggestion was going to be to cut down the "honking big bezel", particularly at the bottom which, as near as I can tell, doesn't contain any components or perform any function beyond cosmetics. Then, make a simple, flat, Lexan clear cover to keep all the bits dry.

If you REALLY wanted to get creative, you could use the cut-off black piece above the instruments, to form a visor against sun glare on the instrument faces.

How's THAT for reduce/reuse/recycle?! :D

I agree - too much of a rise on the scuttle height looks...well, wrong...

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PostPosted: June 3, 2017, 9:03 pm 
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With my RX-7 cluster, I ended up removing the curved clear, front plastic. Then flattened out the plastic surround that it was glued to with a dremel. Then I recut a flat piece of lexan (I think it was lexan) and glued it to the plastic surround. That way the original mounting flanges could be reused. It looks like you could do the same.

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PostPosted: June 3, 2017, 11:58 pm 
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^^That's what I was saying, but not so succinctly or eloquently!

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PostPosted: June 4, 2017, 8:01 am 
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I knew this redhead in Elkins WV that had honkin' big... Oh, wait, you said "bezel"... Never mind... :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: June 4, 2017, 9:17 am 
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Lonnie-S wrote:
fairly big, and it is sculpted in a way that makes a simple, clean mounting of it on a flat dashboard difficult.


Just because the original faceplate is shaped like a slice of liver doesn't mean you have to stick with it. You can remove the clear cover, trim away the housing until it will match up to a flat panel, and then put it behind a dash panel with enough holes to see everything.


Quote:
When you add in some elementary dash hoop structure, the space conflict gets pretty obvious.


Note that Champion's original design didn't have an upper brace on the scuttle. He just used a thin strip to support the hood and the dash panel kept the scuttle shape. The sides were apparently stiff enough to support the windshield frame without additional help.

edit: change the first part to "Me three!"...


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PostPosted: June 4, 2017, 11:43 am 
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@carguy123
@zetec7
@rx7locost
@TRX

. . . and then the very special Mr. GonzoRacer

Thanks gents for the observations and suggestions. You've raised some interesting points, and suggested some ideas I hadn't really thought about.

What I'm hoping for at this point is to have a "for sure" solution to instrumentation in my back pocket. That will allow me to get on with the structure, and not worry about my "painting myself into a corner", and making things much more difficult for myself later. Surface mounting the current instrument cluster is plausible and workable, and I don't have to worry much about the underlying structure that's yet to be done.

I'm basing my general structural criteria on the results of the Wesley Linton's work at Cranfield. It's the only publicized work on a real, in the metal, Locost chassis I know of, although it's the Champion version with some slight modifications. His analysis siggested at least a 1-1/2" x 1" x 16 Ga. mild steel member as the dashboard hoop. Because I've chosen to do a tilt steering wheel column, and I don't have a lots of space for structure too, I'm looking at a top and bottom brace of smaller diameter, likely 3/4" x 16 Ga tube or RHS. I think I may need that top member, but you've got me thinking I should also look a larger, single member down low as an alternative. That would also make my instrument cluster problem disappear, so it's very much worth considering.

As to GonzoRacer, well what can I say that others before me haven't said already? So, I'll give you a knowing, virtual, pat on the head, and say "Things usually get better with time, son."

On a more Locost related note, however, I'll pass on to you that I've seen some nice Mallock-styled vehicles on Pinterest lately. If you've never been on that system check it out. It's free an you might find something new and interesting there.

Cheers all,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: June 4, 2017, 3:27 pm 
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Lonnie
Looking at the side profile of your instrument cluster reminds me of the S10 one. Yours is perfect for mounting in the dash.
I don't know what material you are using for your dash panel, I used 1/4" marine grade plywood. When I get home from vacating in another week, I"l post some pics on how I mounted my curved instrument panel in dash.
You won't regret being able to plug in you OEM wiring harness into the OEM instrument cluster and watch everything work, easy peasy.

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PostPosted: June 5, 2017, 9:03 am 
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It might be worth a few bucks to pick up a spare instrument cluster. Then you could cut it to check fitment without worrying about destroying your good cluster.

Also, if your primary purpose for the hoop is chassis reinforcement, you might consider a triangulated pyramid of tubes, which would be relatively easy to package behind a centrally-mounted cluster.


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PostPosted: June 5, 2017, 11:09 am 
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horchoha wrote:
Lonnie
Looking at the side profile of your instrument cluster reminds me of the S10 one. Yours is perfect for mounting in the dash.
I don't know what material you are using for your dash panel, I used 1/4" marine grade plywood. When I get home from vacating in another week, I"l post some pics on how I mounted my curved instrument panel in dash.
You won't regret being able to plug in you OEM wiring harness into the OEM instrument cluster and watch everything work, easy peasy.

Hey, Perry;

Enjoy your vacation. I'll look forward to those photos when you return.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: June 5, 2017, 11:36 am 
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TRX wrote:
It might be worth a few bucks to pick up a spare instrument cluster. Then you could cut it to check fitment without worrying about destroying your good cluster.

Also, if your primary purpose for the hoop is chassis reinforcement, you might consider a triangulated pyramid of tubes, which would be relatively easy to package behind a centrally-mounted cluster.


I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean, but I'm interested.

Here is my rough plan. They are just indications, not the final arrangement.

I'm planning on a 14 gauge plate (yellow) atop the tunnel section that has been heavily triangulated (red) and now is fully welded. This photo was taken after I tacked things in place.
Attachment:
Tie-in Area.jpg


I'm going to have a cross-ways structure (red) and then tie that to the plate (black).
Attachment:
Rough Plan.jpg


Is this what you had in mind?

Cheers,

EDIT: I had 14 mm plate. It should have been, and now is, 14 gauge plate.


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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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