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PostPosted: August 14, 2019, 9:31 am 
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Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
@Mnot

In this case, the welder is set up for mobile welding. He has a shop, but mobile welding is his bread and butter. Hopefully, he'll drop by, or give me an answer today.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: September 1, 2019, 11:26 am 
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I've been working away on the car. I never found a welder willing to do the critical components for me, so I had to work that out myself. As an amateur welder, doing welding off and on, some of these recent welding situations have been a challenge for me.

Here's a case in point. I needed the plates where the top of the coilovers mount to be 3/16" (~5 mm) steel to meet SOLO requirements for mounting the roll bar. The tubes they mount to are a combination of 14- and 16-gauge RHS of various sizes, the smallest being 3/4" square, 16-gauge RHS. That's some pretty thick metal mounting to some pretty thin metal and a tricky welding situation, as you want to penetrate the 3/16 plate, but not blow through the RHS.

There's not much else to do but create some welding coupons and experiment with the settings to get something that works. I found a setting of 10 volts and wire speed of 84 (units unknown) worked best for my personal welding hand speed on my Millermatic 140.

Attachment:
File comment: Side view of 3 coupons.
DSC04934.JPG
DSC04934.JPG [ 143.68 KiB | Viewed 1288 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: Worst case weld seam - thick 3/16 to top of thin RHS
DSC04933.JPG
DSC04933.JPG [ 141.32 KiB | Viewed 1288 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: I'll put some fillet stitch welds on the undersides when the chassis is next flipped over.
DSC04940.JPG
DSC04940.JPG [ 141.24 KiB | Viewed 1288 times ]


Here's the driver's side welded in with rough, first cut grinding done.
Attachment:
File comment: Driver's side coilover "tower."
DSC04935.JPG
DSC04935.JPG [ 137.42 KiB | Viewed 1288 times ]


I have many other parts done. They are in various states of primer and paint. I'd say in 3 days or so I'll have them all in place and the rear suspension will be done except for the rear anti-roll bar, which I'll provide some mounting points for, but not build yet. I my never need it.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: September 1, 2019, 3:11 pm 
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Location: Charlotte, NC
Lonnie, the coupons look good to me (not a pro) but with the amount of weld including the underside, I would bet that it will be more than sufficient. But to be sure, don't roll the car :)

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My build: http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=16005


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PostPosted: September 2, 2019, 9:54 am 
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Mnot wrote:
. . . But to be sure, don't roll the car :)


:thmbsup: Good idea, Gavin. Kevin Hart just learned the value of driving appropriately the hard way. I hope I'm smart enough to remember that when my build is done.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: September 5, 2019, 8:02 pm 
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I continue to work every day on the build. My last welding challenge has been completed, and I think it worked out well. That was welding the threaded bungs into the Panhard rod tube. Similar to the think/thin issues of the 3/16" plate to the thin RHS, this one was somewhat reduced as the tube is 1/8" wall.

I found a voltage/wires peed setting on the welder that looked good on tubing scrap, and did some deep tack welds (as in holding the end of the MIG wire into the groove between pieces) then ground them down and notched them.
Attachment:
File comment: Deep, high voltage tacks.
DSC04950.JPG
DSC04950.JPG [ 135.03 KiB | Viewed 1200 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: Tacks ground down, notched & place so as to divide the weld into quadrants.
DSC04948.JPG
DSC04948.JPG [ 133.75 KiB | Viewed 1200 times ]


It would have been nice to have some kind of work holder that would rotate the Panhard rod as I welded. However, I just decided to break the weld up into 4 quadrant welds.
Attachment:
File comment: First quadrant weld.
DSC04954.JPG
DSC04954.JPG [ 127.77 KiB | Viewed 1200 times ]


After all welds were done, I ground the weld down all-around, primarily to make sure it was continuous and had no defects. There was one area with some porosity where I went more tangent to the tube as I finished one of the quadrant welds. I ground that out and rewelded. I'm feeling good about the finished product in terms of strength. The aesthetics are not to my liking, but I'm an amateur, so it is what it is.

Also, I started fitting out the components for the rear suspension. I needed to see which lengths of bolts worked best, how many of each, and how many washers, nuts, etc. I needed. It was quite a few, so that justified an order to McMaster-Carr for boxes and packages of same could be had at a reasonable price. It cost too much in ones and two at my local hardware store, plus they usually have small quantities on hand. Those will be her tomorrow AM.
Attachment:
File comment: Drivers side, chassis adjusters fitted.
DSC04955.JPG
DSC04955.JPG [ 141.13 KiB | Viewed 1200 times ]


I hope to have everything in place and rough adjusted this weekend.

Cheers,

_________________
Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: September 5, 2019, 10:01 pm 
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Posts: 182
Location: San Tan Valley, Arizona
Lonnie,
Just a thought for next time, If you have a BBQ Rotisserie motor, it runs at about the right speed. Improvisation is what we do. And in most cases it works well.

If you have an ACE or True Value nearby, they usually have a pretty good bulk selection and do sell by the box. No shipping added at checkout.


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PostPosted: September 5, 2019, 10:48 pm 
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@waltj

Nice idea, Walt. I will keep that in mind. I guess a person could add a control for current flow and control the motor (rotational) speed pretty well too.

Thanks,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: September 9, 2019, 8:36 pm 
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I have a (not so) funny Postal Carrier story for you. I always get packages from McMaster-Carr overnight because they're sent UPS. Well, apparently, like a lot of companies now, they are now saving money by shipping FedEx or another carrier where they actually deliver to your local post office and have the USPS delivers the "last mile" to your door as they call it. I didn't know that change had been made.

I ordered on Thursday and was counting on having my nuts, bolts and washers on Friday morning because it shipped Thursday afternoon. They didn't show. Not Friday afternoon either. I called and e-mailed looking for a reason. I was given a tracking number. The tracking number wouldn't work for FedEx or USPS. WTF? They didn't show up Saturday or Sunday. So, I lost 3 days when I couldn't bolt together all the stuff I've made.

They did show up Monday morning. A neighbor, 2 streets over found them on his doorstep Sunday evening when he came home. He graciously decided not to have the Postal Carrier pick them up and bring them to me. He did it himself. Our Postal Carrier makes so many mistakes that this is typical for our neighborhood. I think she has dementia, honest to God. But, she so close to retirement that I think we all have just decided to live with it until she does retire. So, now we're all part time postal carriers. Aaaaaargh!

Anyway, I'm starting with the fitting out of all the stuff I've made for the rearsuspension. It's a lot of detail work and making up little special purpose things to get set up approximately correctly. I'll finalize everything precisely later on at alignment time.

I made up a cheapo jig to put the control arms at the correct distance:
Attachment:
File comment: Setting the lower control arms to 20-1/2"
DSC04961.JPG
DSC04961.JPG [ 144.99 KiB | Viewed 1141 times ]

Figuring out how to alter and re-install the anti-moan plates was an issue. I decided to put that off until I have the rear suspension fully in place.
Attachment:
File comment: Anti-moan plates. They go from the brake mount plates to the rear axle tubes.
DSC04963.JPG
DSC04963.JPG [ 135.75 KiB | Viewed 1141 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: This is where they used to go. Clearly, I need to cut them down some.
DSC04966.JPG
DSC04966.JPG [ 134 KiB | Viewed 1141 times ]

I had to dig out the rear rotors and calipers and fit them - much wire brushing of internal threads, wire brushing bolts, etc. The pistons are pretty much stuck in the bores, so I had to remove the outer brake pads and smack them back with a rubber mallet.
Attachment:
File comment: Fitted brakes and rotors.
DSC04968.JPG
DSC04968.JPG [ 141.84 KiB | Viewed 1141 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: The origional banjo fitting ran the tubes up over the top of the rear axle. I will be routing them differently. I hope you can get ones that point their hard tubes in other directions?
DSC04969.JPG
DSC04969.JPG [ 140.95 KiB | Viewed 1141 times ]

The upper coilover mounts need spacers for my faux coilovers. I made those up out of scrap PVC.
Attachment:
File comment: Spacers from PVC.
DSC04971.JPG
DSC04971.JPG [ 130.95 KiB | Viewed 1141 times ]

Then there's the dry fitting of all the various pieces to see which bolts/nuts/ washers work best for the upper coilover mounts and the roll bar mounts. Clearances are tight. They will have to be assembled in a specific sequence to work.
Attachment:
File comment: Bolts to mount upper coilover mounts, roll bar plates and faux coilovers.
DSC04973.JPG
DSC04973.JPG [ 128.17 KiB | Viewed 1141 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: Tight, tight, tight, but workable. I think I'll paint the faux colivers red, just so I can see 'em.
DSC04975.JPG
DSC04975.JPG [ 133.43 KiB | Viewed 1141 times ]


Cheers all,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: September 10, 2019, 11:06 pm 
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More fit up and trials were the tasks of the day today. I found a bolt and washer combination I was happy with.
Attachment:
File comment: The winning bolt and washer combination.
DSC04977.JPG
DSC04977.JPG [ 144.47 KiB | Viewed 1105 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: Selected bolt/washer combo.
DSC04980.JPG
DSC04980.JPG [ 141.51 KiB | Viewed 1105 times ]

I had previously created some wooden spaces that hold the axle off the outside chassis rail at the distance my calculation told me they should be.
Attachment:
File comment: Wooden axle spacers.
DSC04982.JPG
DSC04982.JPG [ 138.18 KiB | Viewed 1105 times ]

I don't have a precise, alignment-worthy way of measuring things at the moment, but hand measures and the spacers tell me I'm very close. I'll put the wheels and tires on tomorrow and remeasure using those too. I believe being within 1/32" of symmetry is the standard. I wouldn't trust my hand measuring to be that good, so it's an unanswered question as yet. I do feel I'm very close, however.

There's about 1/32" slop at the axle for minute adjustment at align time using thin spacers. I can make a little more by belt sanding one (or both) of the high misalignment spacers if needed.
Attachment:
File comment: Commercial bookmark card, about 1/32" inch indicates spacing available without belt sanding.
DSC04984.JPG
DSC04984.JPG [ 134 KiB | Viewed 1105 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: General stance from rear. My wheels have significant offset inward, although the stock wheels had quite a bit too.
DSC04978.JPG
DSC04978.JPG [ 144.63 KiB | Viewed 1105 times ]

Tomorrow I'll install the faux coilovers and the Panhard rod hardware. That should be it for the rear suspension for a while.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: September 12, 2019, 7:32 pm 
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Location: Boise, Idaho
Lonnie,
In the pic of the rear brake caliper and brake hose, you wondered out loud if different line routing is available. Check out the ones made for the front of the SN-95 Mustang. Is that what you had in mind? If not, a generic 10mm banjo to -3AN adapter will let you route braided flex lines in whatever path fits the best.

Ron


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PostPosted: September 13, 2019, 10:39 am 
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@seven13bt

Thank you, Ron. I will check out both of those suggestions.

Regards,

Lonnie

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: September 13, 2019, 6:28 pm 
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Lonnie,
I also have a ford rear end (IRS) and I used the stock MN12 lines and bent the hard line to conform to my needs. I admit, mine aren't the prettiest but they work, they are repeatable, and locost :)

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My build: http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=16005


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PostPosted: September 14, 2019, 12:38 am 
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Mnot wrote:
lines and bent the hard line to conform to my needs.

Yessss, when I looked at the pics of Lonnies brake lines that's exactly what came to mind. I've tweeked a many of brake line/hose to suit my need, why I just did it on the Topolino build, and the S10 build before that, and the Che7enette build before that. IMHO brake lines are pliable, and they should be, otherwise they would break or crack.
The other thing I question is what do the anti moan plates do? The T Bird axle I used (drum brakes) didn't have them. What purpose do they serve with disc brakes? Can they be simply deleted?

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'If man built it, man can fix it'
"No one ever told me I couldn't do it."
"If you can't build it safe, don't build it."

Perry's Locost Super Che7enette Build
Perry's TBird Based 5.0L Super 7 L.S.O.
Perry's S10 Super 7 The 3rd
Perry's 4th Build, The Topolino 500 (Little Mouse) Altered


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PostPosted: September 14, 2019, 7:39 am 
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I'd try the front hoses on the rear. The fittings are the same with a 10mm banjo and 7/16 but there is a shorter length of steel tube at the banjo that may let you bring the hose behind the axle. If there is a lip on the banjo, this can be ground off if it prevents clocking the way you need it to be or you can bolt it on backwards with the lip facing out.

You can do some cold bending on the lines but to bring it straight around the back would be iffy without heat that would cook off the finish of the new lines plus you'd need to repeat the process if you ever replaced them.

Universal banjos will work too but I'd stay with the oems if possible for less cost than an lines and adapters.

Another option is the same year model aerostar front hoses. Ford used this hose design but varying lengths and bends of steel tube for decades, mostly with 10mm banjos and 3/8 or 7/16 fittings.

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PostPosted: September 14, 2019, 10:40 am 
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Mnot wrote:
Lonnie,
I also have a ford rear end (IRS) and I used the stock MN12 lines and bent the hard line to conform to my needs. I admit, mine aren't the prettiest but they work, they are repeatable, and locost :)


Thanks, Gavin, I appreciate the input.

I'm going to have to experiment to some extent on the brake lines. I actually saved my donor brake and fuel lines. I have made provisions to run the brake lines inside the tunnel (the stock lines have way too many bends to salvedge for the tunnel - they are hard too), and from the master cylinders (I have a dual system), but that last 20-30 inches hasn't been done yet in terms of where to run them and what to use. I don't fully understand what options I might have yet, so I'm in the learning phase. These different ideas and experiences are very helpful.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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