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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: June 15, 2014, 12:10 pm 
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Joined: July 20, 2010, 7:56 pm
Posts: 525
Location: Warrenton, Virginia
I took these pics just in case they would help,
Attachment:
DSC03304.JPG

Attachment:
DSC03311.JPG

Attachment:
DSC03313.JPG

Attachment:
DSC03314.JPG


The trans is from a V8 Stang, The bell housing is from a T'Bird Turbo Coupe, but the depth should be close to a V8.

Ron


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PostPosted: June 15, 2014, 2:44 pm 
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Joined: June 13, 2014, 11:55 am
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Thanks for your replies.
I think I'll have to go to a breaker to verify with the aid of a template and measuring tape.


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PostPosted: September 15, 2014, 2:42 pm 
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Joined: January 16, 2009, 2:17 pm
Posts: 134
Location: Langdon, AB Canada
This could be a foolish question..... or maybe not.

Has anyone tried to use the factory suspension mounts on a ford rear axle? What are benefits and disadvantages to this? If it has been done any tips on setting up the suspension arms properly for a 4 link set up?

I ask because I was looking at my live rear axle the other day and though maybe that could work.

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Convincing yourself you can do it is one thing, convincing your wife it is a good idea is another. Glad I have a great wife!

1999 Dajiban build
Autcross car currently 2009 Mazda RX8 R3.

Build is a plus 4" width, 13B Renesis. Wish me luck.


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PostPosted: September 22, 2014, 5:48 pm 
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Location: Langdon, AB Canada
Note to anyone considering this... in a plus 2" chassis it wont work. Do it the proven way and build your own mounts.

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Convincing yourself you can do it is one thing, convincing your wife it is a good idea is another. Glad I have a great wife!

1999 Dajiban build
Autcross car currently 2009 Mazda RX8 R3.

Build is a plus 4" width, 13B Renesis. Wish me luck.


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PostPosted: September 20, 2015, 10:40 am 
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Joined: January 16, 2009, 2:17 pm
Posts: 134
Location: Langdon, AB Canada
Okay so my build is still not dead, just slow.... really slow. I now have 2 kids so life interrupts hobbies. I now have an engine, a transmission, front uprights, rear live axle diff (x2) and a steering rack. So I have ben gathering parts with time. I have also done a bit of work to the frame in the last year... but minimal. I have a few questions that I seem to be having trouble finding the answer to.

1) what tubing should I use for my rear trailing arms? I have been considering using a 3 link instead of 4 link, if I do this should I us larger tubing? For my front control arms I am doing what Rod did and going with 7/8 DOM with .156 wall, and using 5/8 Rod ends, can I use this same set up for my rear arms and pan hard bar?

2) I've read mixed things on trans tunnel and chassis stiffness. I am planning on using 1" square for it, but If I can save space by using 3/4 without effecting it should I?

3)I have 2 rear axles, One out of a 2012 mustang and one 28spline ford 8.8 from a 89 mustang. I am planning to use the newer one as it is 5 lug (same as front) has disk brakes and is just stronger. It already has the top centre link mount if I chose to do a 3 link but it is not the Ideal location (I am assuming) I am torn if I should just drop the 3 link idea and ignore this. I have accepted the act that there is no perfect setting so with a close enough attitude is there a benefit between 3 or 4 link? The vehicle is intended mostly for touring but I do autocross and the odd track day (non competitive, just fun)

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Convincing yourself you can do it is one thing, convincing your wife it is a good idea is another. Glad I have a great wife!

1999 Dajiban build
Autcross car currently 2009 Mazda RX8 R3.

Build is a plus 4" width, 13B Renesis. Wish me luck.


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PostPosted: September 20, 2015, 11:58 am 
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Joined: May 1, 2012, 9:43 am
Posts: 336
Location: Sidney, BC, Canada
Hey, I didn't notice your build log before, nice to know there is another south alberta build.

My trailing links are made from 1" diameter, 0.065" wall tubing, with 1/2" heim joint rod ends. I have seen plenty of other builds with the same tubing and they don't seem to have any issues. The lower arms are taking a larger force than the upper ones since the acceleration force (axle pushing forward on the car) and axle torque (trying to twist in the opposite direction of the tires) are additive in the lower arms and subtractive in the uppers. The failure mode for tubes in compression is usually buckling and for long, narrow tubes that tends to happen at lower force levels than the tensile limit of the tube, so if you're looking to strengthen the tubes it is best to go with a larger diameter rather than thicker wall. I would suggest at least 1", and possibly 1.5" on the panhard and lower arms if you're going go be running sticky tires and thrashing it a bit.

I think the difficult part with running a three link instead of 4 is that the centre upper link would end up quite short due to the design of the locost frame. That means that either your lower links have to be short, which results in a limited range of suspension travel before you get significant fore/aft movement of the axle, or your lower and upper links end up being different lengths which results in axle rotation with bump. The advantage of the three link is that it can be lighter, and it's easier to avoid roll bind. With 4 link setups some people have place the forward pivot points quite far forward on the frame (i.e. Car9) which minimizes roll steering and fore/aft axle movements.

I think 3/4" is fine of the tunnel as long as it is fully triangulated or closed in with structural panels.


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PostPosted: September 20, 2015, 11:10 pm 
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Joined: October 24, 2008, 2:13 pm
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Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
The 3-link setup takes a bit of planning. But, it can be done. If you look at Rod's Locost 5.0 log (viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1586), you'll find an example using basically the typical Cobra replica 3-link and a Ford 8.8 rear axle. I was going to use Rod's as a model for my own with a Mustang 7.5" rear axle, but when I looked at the packaging issues and the need to reinforce the trans tunnel, I opted for the traditional 4-link, just because i thought it would be simpler to fabricate and build and easier to tune when finished.

There are lots of examples of successful 3-links in racing, however.

Cheers,

Lonnie

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: September 20, 2015, 11:45 pm 
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Joined: February 11, 2010, 1:45 am
Posts: 45
Hi Ben,
I have a T5 transmission in my shop here in Calgary if you want to take some pics/measurements etc. I am also running a Ford 302 in my 7 as well. Tons of fun to say the least. While your building remember to build in some safety hoops in the tunnel. Easier now than later me thinks.
cheers,

Bill.


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PostPosted: September 21, 2015, 12:27 pm 
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Joined: January 16, 2009, 2:17 pm
Posts: 134
Location: Langdon, AB Canada
Hi Bill,

This is Ben from Autocross, I have been in your 7 a few times. I already have a T5 so no need anymore for that. I am currently just figuring out my rear suspension set up and trying to decide 4-link or 3 link and the required DOM for it. I don't know if the weld in bungs or direct tapping is better either.

I plan on running some big meaty tires on 17" wheels (more style then outright performance reasons), this is leading me to think I should be using the suggested 1.5" OD but I almost feel that is overkill!

For my Front I am doing what Rod did in his build and just tapping the 7/8 DOM with .156 wall (no drilling required), he has put a lot of kilometers on and has not reported any issues.

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Convincing yourself you can do it is one thing, convincing your wife it is a good idea is another. Glad I have a great wife!

1999 Dajiban build
Autcross car currently 2009 Mazda RX8 R3.

Build is a plus 4" width, 13B Renesis. Wish me luck.


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PostPosted: September 21, 2015, 9:28 pm 
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Joined: February 11, 2010, 1:45 am
Posts: 45
Hi Ben,

I thought that might be you. You going to the Red Deer Auto X, this coming Sunday? Just got mine back on the road this past Sat evening and went to the Ft Mcleod event on Sunday. It was very windy and the cones kept blowing over during the event.

cheers,

Bill


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PostPosted: September 22, 2015, 10:52 am 
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Joined: January 16, 2009, 2:17 pm
Posts: 134
Location: Langdon, AB Canada
Bill, I might go, I have been busy and did not even realize it was this weekend. Maybe I can steal a ride from you to keep up my motivation :wink: .

Cheers,

Ben

_________________
Convincing yourself you can do it is one thing, convincing your wife it is a good idea is another. Glad I have a great wife!

1999 Dajiban build
Autcross car currently 2009 Mazda RX8 R3.

Build is a plus 4" width, 13B Renesis. Wish me luck.


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PostPosted: September 22, 2015, 10:55 am 
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Joined: January 16, 2009, 2:17 pm
Posts: 134
Location: Langdon, AB Canada
Small image update:


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Convincing yourself you can do it is one thing, convincing your wife it is a good idea is another. Glad I have a great wife!

1999 Dajiban build
Autcross car currently 2009 Mazda RX8 R3.

Build is a plus 4" width, 13B Renesis. Wish me luck.


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PostPosted: September 22, 2015, 9:30 pm 
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Joined: February 11, 2010, 1:45 am
Posts: 45
NCLBNY wrote:
Bill, I might go, I have been busy and did not even realize it was this weekend. Maybe I can steal a ride from you to keep up my motivation :wink: .

Cheers,

Ben


no problem Ben, I hope to see you there.

Bill.


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PostPosted: September 23, 2015, 10:57 pm 
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Location: central Arkansas
NCLBNY wrote:
Small image update:


Hey! I have some pictures like that... viewtopic.php?f=35&t=12282&hilit=maxima

The clutch fork was a major intrusion into the driver's footwell. Back then the aftermarket hydraulic throwout bearings were far too expensive for me to consider, but you might want to see what prices look like nowadays.

Another option, that I didn't think of until much later, was to relocate the pivot ball and cut a new hole to run the fork out the top of the bellhousing. Then use a push-type hydraulic cylinder to actuate the clutch. (the intake and cylinder heads would make running the cable awkward) The nice thing is, there's nothing up top interfere with the clutch bits.

Also, the transmission I used had some very large fins or tabs on the sides; I cut those off and was able to narrow the tunnel over an inch. What else... the speedometer cable didn't want to make the turn. We were going to look for a right-angle adapter, but we didn't make it that far. We put an access port on the passenger side of the tunnel so we could check the transmission oil level and top it up if needed.


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PostPosted: September 23, 2015, 11:57 pm 
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Joined: August 27, 2005, 1:04 am
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Location: Kamloops, BC, Canada
1.5" dom is probably way overkill for the trailing links on one of these. My brother has a diesel pickup with 3 link suspension front and rear, and the links are about 3 or 4 feet long, made out of 1.75". I don't know the wall thickness though, but no issues with 37" tires. I personally used 3/4" solid aluminum for mine, and have dumped the clutch with 10" slicks and a v6 plenty of times without issues. I would think the 7/8 x .156" would be plenty strong. Or even 1" x .125" with weld in bungs. Good to see your still at it. Mine took way longer than I had hoped too when I got married and had kids.
Kristian

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