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PostPosted: December 20, 2018, 9:44 am 
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A little FYI about center mounted water pumps systems:

They were installed on both fwd and rwd applications.

The timing cover must match the pump for either cw or ccw rotation AND the pump impeller is also directional. Notice that one type has fasteners that go into an aluminum pan where the other is for a steel pan.
Have a small traditional hub design that was cw only and a larger hub design that was used on cw and ccw pumps.

V belt systems are cw only but flat belt systems are cw and ccw.

A center mount pump timing cover (slightly trimmed at the top) is needed to clear the neck on a fwd lower intake if flipped to the front.

I considered swapping the pulleys for another center mount pump application but found they all space the belt away from the crank. I’m maximizing room to move the steering rack aft and the v belt crank pulley has no wasted space between the first groove and the harmonic damper. The only system shorter than mine is a fwd with the offset pump and a grooved damper. My alt bracket will be similar to what is shown.

After deciding which pulleys and grooves to use, I found I can’t quite fit the 12si alternator where I want on the driver’s side and still line up with two pulley grooves, so I’ve ordered a 105 amp cs130 ($37) for a 94 cavalier where the mounting lugs are not 180 degrees apart.

Because the remaining belt grooves are closer together than those that drove the alternator, I can’t use the double groove pulley on the 12si so I ordered one with 0.63” spacing ($15) and a connector for the cs130 ($6).

I removed the extra pulley grooves from the crank and water pump pulleys. Original pulleys are stamped sheet, spot welded and brazed. They are hung in adjacent pairs by either the inside or outside sheet metal so it is just a question of cutting the right side. Compare these pulleys to the pics on page one; A dramatic improvement!

Looks like I may be getting furloughed again for a little while (totally worth it imho) so I may have some extra time!


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PostPosted: December 28, 2018, 11:32 am 
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Really would like a nice dry day to work on this but I have accomplished a few things.I'm really glad I didn't simply continue with the mods that were done before me and put a 5.0l v8 in it, because I would not have been able to make these improvements.

The final rack mods compared to original are aft 3 inches , raised 2.75 inches, narrowed 2 inches.

The limiting factors:

For moving the rack 3 inches aft is rack boot to coil spring clearance. I’m also moving the engine back another inch but I could go two more and still clear everything.

For raising the rack 2.75 is boot to uca clearance.

For narrowing the rack 2 inches, the timing cover coolant inlet clearance to the GT6 steering joint.

The benefits are; maintaining effective steering ratio, complete elimination of anti-ackerman to the point of going positive, elimination of bump steer, maintaining the turning radius, and a much further aft and lower cg than the original. Curb weight should be close to the same as original.

The frame rails between the front and middle body tub mounts are completely replaced with 11ga 2x3. The middle tub mounts are tapered and are located at the front of the seats. Would have been easier to cut them out and run straight tube but then the seat travel would be reduced. Trying to keep it original looking inside and out.

The front cross member is thinned to clear the crank pulley.

The front rails have the flanges removed for clearance.

The turrets are reworked for rack clearance, trimmed, and incorporate a lateral brace over the engine that ties them together.

The middle cross member is replaced for transmission clearance and mounting.

Looks like hell now but ya gotta start somewhere. I'll probably replace rather than repair the timing cover corrosion since a new cover is about $70. Harmonic damper looks funny because the outer ring let go. Engine was pretty oil soaked when I got it, but it was free. Once all the fab is done, I will go through it. If it needs a crank, I'll put in a 3.1l crank, pistons, and swap the flywheel for balance.


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File comment: Previous mod for sbf showing stock rack location.
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File comment: beginning turret mods
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File comment: 2 inch back (will be 3) and 1.75 up (will be 2.75).
STEERING 005.jpg
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PostPosted: December 29, 2018, 9:52 am 
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Where in the world did you get that really neato cool alternator mount?

I bow to greatness....

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PostPosted: December 29, 2018, 2:07 pm 
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I can't claim it. I have not made my alternator bracket yet. I'm just showing different ways to setup the v6-60 accessories. If you want an off the shelf solution, try
http://www.classicconversionseng.com/pl ... and-parts/

Pricey stuff. On the reverse rotation setup like what I think you have, the kit is about $200. However, the slotted arm is a standard sbc part that costs about $10. The idler is probably $15. Then it is just a piece of pipe, some bolts, and a couple pieces of 1/8 plate and paint. The alternator is the same as the one I bought for $36 off ebay, no core charge. The hard part is getting everything aligned so the flat belt doesn't start fraying at the edge. Gives plenty of warning if the alignment is off a tad.

I've decided to run the 3.4l iron crate motor cam. Specs are 204/216@.050, 107 CL. Made 160hp@5000, 194tq @ 2700 with my intake, 2bbl, and stock manifolds. Heads and rockers are the same also. The cam has been discontinued but I found a replacement so I can avoid custom length push rods due to a regrind. Crate info:
https://paceperformance.com/i-6255050-1 ... inued.html

Planted Norris jujube, "mango" and "lemon chiffon" pawpaw, and a goumi today. The norris was on backorder for a year, ordered three, but got one. I can make as many as I want with one though.

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PostPosted: December 29, 2018, 3:55 pm 
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This is what I have so far.

Finding a suitable slit slide mount bracket thingy has been the issue...


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resized Water Pump done 2013-09-17_16-21-40_488.jpg
resized Water Pump done 2013-09-17_16-21-40_488.jpg [ 177.86 KiB | Viewed 1149 times ]

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PostPosted: December 29, 2018, 5:34 pm 
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The arc swing od of the traditional sbc 10/12si alt works fine with a cs130. You can drill an extra wherever you need, bend it in a vice with a bfh to add a step or just use washers or cut pipe as a spacer:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SBC-Chrome-Alt ... SwKEhbtsZA

Got a little bit done today besides gardening. Left myself plenty of room for a fwd left side starter as well as a couple inches or more of setback. Kept it away from the floor pan mount so that should clear from there back anyway. As for keeping it straight, it helps to know the distances from the factory instead of duplicating the dims found 40 years later.


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PostPosted: December 30, 2018, 1:26 pm 
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geek49203 wrote:
This is what I have so far.

Finding a suitable slit slide mount bracket thingy has been the issue...


I should have looked at your alt more closely. The sbc arm would work well with 180 degree fasteners and you could make it work for your alt but you don't need to buy anything. To make the straight slotted arm, I'd use 1x1/8 strip, drill the 3/8 holes for each end of the slot, cut through the end with a band saw to open up the id, then weld the cut end back together. Notice the slot is on the inboard end where it can't get in the way of the alt fan no matter how you adjust the alt.

Move the pivot bolt on the red bracket down and out far enough for the alt body to hug the block. Ideally you want the pulley to move directly away from the crank pulley when rotated around the pivot bolt.


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PostPosted: December 31, 2018, 5:56 am 
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Geek, I see we have the same alt so here is an alt brkt pattern. This is higher than yours because my frame is in the way on the spit. FWIW, this would not fit a spit. Since I have different pulleys, I didn’t consider pulley alignment. The brkt could be shimmed at the block as needed for alignment.

One pic shows both the block edge and the alt edge. The slotted brkt should allow the alt to kiss the block for installing the belt. Use the shortest belt that will fit so the slotted brkt can be shorter and the alt can stick out no more than necessary. The slotted brkt will need a spacer at the alt that is the thickness of the block brkt. I suggest .125 if supporting the back of the alt pivot side or .250” thick for just a front supporting block brkt.

When using a straight slotted arm, make sure the slotted arm hole on the block brkt is higher than the adjustment bolt hole on the alt since clearance between the slotted arm and the fan goes away as the alt is adjusted outward.

UPDATE: This is closer to what you need. The first/latest pic shows a bracket that drops the alt down but further out (since your alt does not have the notch in the case that mine does) and provides a rear support to allow for a 1/8 brkt. Notice the short ,two hole brkt and the extra hole in the block brkt. For the spacer, use a 1/4 x 4 black steel pipe nipple and cut the ends off. This should fit well to a 3/8 bolt shank. Cut down to the case length at the pivot. If you want to try printing the patterns, I can take better pics and provide some dims.


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PostPosted: December 31, 2018, 10:28 pm 
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The swap I did in high school, I replaced the too-small cardboard transmission cover with a fiberglass one. I laid wet newspapers over the transmission, then fiberglass over that. After scraping the solidified newspapers out, it didn't look too bad...


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PostPosted: January 1, 2019, 10:47 am 
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That sounds ideal for the tightest fit practical. I have not thought much about the cover yet. I made a scoop for the fiero a while back, using fan-fold styrofoam hot glued together as a mold so I might go that way. I'd like steel but it will be a while before I decide. Not a fan of the abs plastic replacements.


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PostPosted: January 4, 2019, 9:14 am 
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Dang... I owe you bigtime! Tons of time and thought for little ole Liberal Arts grad me! Thanks!

BTW, what alternator is that?

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PostPosted: January 4, 2019, 10:26 am 
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It didn't take long to make the patterns but thanks anyway. As I said, if you want to print to scale, I can take some measurements and a directly vertical pic that you can scale as needed using the ruler in Word or some other program.

The alternator is the same model as yours except I changed the pulley to work with my v belt pulleys.
Also, my alt has a notch in the case close to the pivot hole but your case does not.

On the build, I pulled the carb to look at milling the intake down adn/or fitting a different carb. I test fit holley 2 and 4 barrels, a weber idf, and was considering a weber/holley 5200 progressive or carter bbd but it looks like I'll keep the stock carb for now. It fits as-is with the air cleaner mods and no efe heater spacer under it. I found the weber idf is only about 3/8 higher at the aircleaner flange than the stock 2bbl and typical holley carbs. The horns make it so much taller but they are not required. Also the idf accel pump linkage would need about a 3/8 clearance notch below the base plate. A weber dcoe could fit well. Founds some other interesting intakes using various v6-60 lower intakes. These are all iron head intakes.


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PostPosted: January 6, 2019, 4:47 pm 
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Made a little progress today. I forgot that I had a early 90s taurus cooling fan. It is almost a perfect fit on the fiero radiator. This the 3.0l fan and not he 3800 heavy duty fan but plenty of capacity for this.

CORRECTION: The fan is from a 93-96 Ford Escort. Fuses are 15a for low and 40a for high. Had to do some trimming to clear my radiator mounts but a good fit.


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. 001.jpg
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PostPosted: January 9, 2019, 6:03 pm 
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Had some bad rust where the long horns overlap the main rails so that was cut out and replaced. Removed the inside skin of the main rails at the front (looked to be about .050 thick), replaced it with 3 x 1/8 strip then redrilled the rear lcap mounting holes. Removed the flanges and cut back the rails to maximize clearance for whatever comes along. Deepened the cross member notch to allow for potential further lowering of the engine, then filled it with 2 x 1/8 strip. Still need to gusset around the engine mount brkts, fit a nut plate, box the horns, add drainage holes, decide on how I will compensate for the cross member notching.

Started fitting a 2x3 11ga cross member behind the original. It was modified to use as a trans mount but it will all need to be cut out for clearance. The new trans mount cross member will attach to nut plates welded to the bottom of the frame with 4 bolts and will provide exhaust hangers.


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PostPosted: January 15, 2019, 7:13 pm 
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Set back the engine another 1.75" inches for rack clearance and the max with a distributor and a cowl vent. Lowered the engine to 2.25" for the deepest part of the oil pan, except the drain which is slightly lower and a lug on the T5 that will be trimmed off. The exhaust is 2 inch so it should be about 2.25" also. Trying to maximize room for an LA1 or 3500 while also clearing speed bumps of 3 inches. I can rework the pan for more clearance and/or tweak the ride ht. The newer engines have structural aluminum pans I'm not keen on modifying but I have the equipment to do so and that's way down the road. Also in making room for the newer engines with the drivers side starter, I had to move the left rail out two inches (in progress pic). I'm satisfied this is the final position, all things considered. I measured 11 inches between the front of the block at the intake mating surface and the bonnet. This tends to be the clearance problem area with the neck off the upper intake, at least on mgs and miata.

The mounts are moving foward and inside the rails next to the rear lcaps for very short, lighter brkts.

As I mentioned before, no room down low for the alt. I found the CS alt is still too long to fit where I want by 0.400". I could trim the spacers and alt pulley and shim the crank and water pump pulleys to get the rest of the way, but I just ordered some fiero pulleys and water pump (CW, large hub) and will switch back to a flat belt. This will leave less room for the rack but I may have enough with the 1.75" setback. I'm also cutting out the original rack mount pads to fit a 2x3 cross member fwd of the notched original.

You may notice some primer on the engine where I've been grinding off casting flash on the block and extra spot welded tabs on the valve covers.


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