LocostUSA.com

In the Slotus, I'd estimate about 43 pounds...

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JD, father of Quinn, Son of a... Build Log
Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom

OK, I'm not dead. I'm actually still making progress on the car too, but as I have said before, the little car takes a back seat to any other projects on the desk. School started this week, so my dear sweet bride is traveling back and forth to the neighboring town, 60 mile commute, right at daylight and dusk. She took another deer out this week. That makes 7 strikes in the past three years. I'm building a bull bar for her car this time, I'm getting pretty tired of putting it back together. Actually, in the past 3-4 years, she has totaled a minivan, and an Accord, plus the ones I fixed. Along with that, one of the kids took the oil pan out of their car, and another tore the front bumper cover off. I'll be glad when I get all the kids out on their own and can just keep my wife's car and mine running.

Anyway, I went ahead and sweated in copper pipes to take the place of the PVC for my cooling system. I believe that the PVC will work, but not as close to the exhaust as I need to be, so copper should work.



I also got the carb sorted out and a choke cable put in, so it starts quickly and easily anytime I hit the key. I need to tune it under load and I can actually run it now that I have the cooling system together. The needle valve in the kit I bought doesn't fit however, so I am still leaking a bit. The float in the carb is plastic and the new needle is for a brass float, so I either need to find a needle for a plastic float, or a brass float.




The lights are almost all working now. I need to get the license plate light and back-up lights in, and also need to get the blinkers to blink.



I need to get the axles stripped so that I can get them to the machinist who said he could mate the Chevy inners with the Ford outers. I need to strip off the CV joints so I can bring him just the shafts that needs stretched. I also have some aluminum sheet coming for the body sides.

I didn't make it to the road this summer, but it won't be long now, assuming that the deer stay off the road. . .

TALON

One friendly tip, consider using ZEREX G-05 as coolant since you're running copper, it'll help keep corrosion to a minimum.

It's not too expensive compared to premix stuff, and it's peace of mind.

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Walt
06 RX-8 Shinka
04 RX-8 GT
06 325xi
Some people never have anything except ideas. Go do it.
Emissions & fuel economy haven't exactly been areas of strength for past rotary power plants, but absolutely no one with a soul has ever cared.

right on Talon, won't be long now

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The B-3 build log: http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=13941 unfortunately, all the pictures were lost in the massive server crash

The beginnings of the Jag Special,
https://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=19012
Again, all pictures were lost.

OK, I need some help and support here. Someone tell me "NO" and give me all the reasons why this is a bad idea. I am having some self control issues here. At $150.00 I am feeling vunerable to temptation. . .



TALON

Do it do it do it!

Just make sure your carb can run pressurized.

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Walt
06 RX-8 Shinka
04 RX-8 GT
06 325xi
Some people never have anything except ideas. Go do it.
Emissions & fuel economy haven't exactly been areas of strength for past rotary power plants, but absolutely no one with a soul has ever cared.

And that's why it's not a good idea. Pressurized carbs have never been nearly as trouble free as EFI. But if you were going back to EFI then WHY NOT!!!

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mobilito ergo sum
I drive therefore I am

I can explain it to you,
but I can't understand it for you.

Another option is to place the turbo right before the intake, and run the carb into the turbo inlet in a draw-through setup.
Exhaust routing may be tricky though, you'd have to do a short run and wrap the pipes.

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Walt
06 RX-8 Shinka
04 RX-8 GT
06 325xi
Some people never have anything except ideas. Go do it.
Emissions & fuel economy haven't exactly been areas of strength for past rotary power plants, but absolutely no one with a soul has ever cared.

I strongly suggest getting the car completely done and on the road for several thousand miles before going down that path. A turbo isn't something to be taken lightly because without proper tuning, it'll destroy your engine. Can it be done with a carburetor? Sure, but who's going to tune it? Where are all the jets and chokes coming from? How will MAP and AFR be monitored? A modern ECU is really the best path forward to creating a reliable turbo setup.

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Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://midlana.com/stuff/book/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains
Both available from https://www.lulu.com/

I vote get the car on the road too. Learn to drive it before you turbo it. There will be plenty to debug anyway. You can put the turbo in during some down time, like during the winter. It will give you a better chance to do it right also. You can get or make proper manifolds for injection etc.

Resist!

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Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.

The other option is to get a turbo, and use it to make the exhaust/intake plumbing fit the packaging constraints.

Replace the turbo turbine housing with a 90° elbow with the proper flanges after you get things routed, and do the same for the compressor housing.

Then you have the ability to quickly add the turbo once the main bugs are worked out, without having to re-engineer any panels or etc.

Or just leave the turbo in place with the wastegate wired open till you're ready for boost.

I'm sorry if I'm playing devils advocate too much, but a turbo 3 cylinder somehow is appealing to me...

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Walt
06 RX-8 Shinka
04 RX-8 GT
06 325xi
Some people never have anything except ideas. Go do it.
Emissions & fuel economy haven't exactly been areas of strength for past rotary power plants, but absolutely no one with a soul has ever cared.

Thanks Guys. I knew I could count on you to set me straight. I do like the idea of getting the hardware to build around though. I may do that yet, but I'll put off the thoughts of building a pressurized box around the carb and boosting things for now.

I do intend to boost when I get to the "phase two" part. I have been collecting parts for that as I find them reasonable. Currently I have a set of throttle bodies (4 throttle bodies, one with a broken tab, so I got them cheap, only need three anyway) and a set of Coil-On-Plug coils from an LS engine. I also have most of the sensors needed for full electronic control. At that point I will be boosting.

I have most of the logic sorted out in code for what I intend to do, but I still have a major head problem I can't get through. Maybe someone has an idea? I can do the engine control as a full 240 degree engine, or I can treat the engine as three separate 720 degree single cylinder engines for electronics.

Treating it as a whole would be simpler and more like every other ECU on the road, but treating it as three separate engines opens a lot of doors for maximum economy. I could actually shut down spark and fuel to individual cylinders at will. (I was never able to find electronic compression releases) Realistically, as small as this car is, it could probably cruise easily as a blown single cylinder, and add cylinders as needed, or desired.

Pulse-and-glide, acceleration ramps and other hypermiling type driving techniques can be programmed in with either full engine electronics, or three redundant systems. Cost will be a bit more with three, most sensors (temp, TPS etc.) can be multiplexed, but I will need 3 O2 sensors and three MAP sensors.

Anyway, that is all for "phase-two". The wisdom of getting it on the road and debugged first has been recieved. Thanks for keeping me on track.

TALON

I'm with everybody who says get it driving and get some miles on it before you do any engine mods, and lots of miles before you do something as extreme as forced induction. Nevertheless......I'd like to hear more about this $150 turbocharger.

Also, your cylinder deactivation ideas sound interesting. If you make your injection with three throttle bodies, maybe you could find a way to close (or fully open) the throttle on the inactive cylinder(s)--otherwise you'll have big pumping losses as air travels through the inactive cylinder(s) and possibly worse fuel economy than you'd get with all three cylinders working for a living.

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Locost builder and adventurer, and founder (but no longer owner) of Kinetic Vehicles

link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T04E-T3-T4-63-T ... bb&vxp=mtr

Cylinder de-activation: there was an American engine in the mid 80's, Cadilliac maybe, that had a V8 but could drop cylinders to improve fuel mileage. The problem with it was that they just dis-abled the spark and the injectors would wash the cylinder walls down with raw gas. It didn't last long on the market. I intend to have 3 O2 sensors, 3 MAP/MAF sensors and treat each cylinder as a separate engine so I can shut off both fuel and spark. Early on in this thread I was looking for a compression release that could be electrically activated and didn't come up with anything. I hope that the pumping losses won't eat up all of the mileage savings. I have a set of Suzuki 1100 throttle bodies to use when I get to that point. Plan is to have the primary cylinder throttle body cable operated and the other two servo operated, taking commands from the electronics. We'll see how that all turns out.

Anyway, I'll be keeping the coil, distributor and the single Honda XL500 carb in place until it is licensed and the chassis is shook down and sorted out. And no turbo, yet.

TALON

It wasn't the Cadillac; the 8-6-4 used a rather fancy Cadillac-only EFI with a giant crank trigger and sequential injection. And that came and went when most other GM vehicles were still using carburetors.

The 8-6-4 disabled cylinders by using a Rube Goldberg rocker arm pivot with a solenoid. With the solenoid off, the rocker worked normally. When activated, the solenoid unlatched the rocker so it bounced up and down instead of opening the valve. While it looked pretty goofball, they seemed to work okay. Eaton made the bits if I recall correctly.

Here's a web page from a guy who retrofitted the 8-6-4 bits to a 500 CID motor:
http://kasplutt.dlinkddns.com/Cad/V864.html

Some years back BMW was talking about a "cylinder deactivation" setup using independent throttle bodies and port injection and a standard valvetrain. They put out some SAE papers about it, maybe around 2000 or so. They claimed the pumping losses were minimal, but they might have been doing some trickery with valved manifolding; they were really into "active plenums" and suchlike at the time.


That eBay turbo - is it supposed to be within the appropriate size range for a G10?