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PostPosted: February 17, 2009, 2:23 am 
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Auto Motive, My friends call me Motive
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Location: Spanish Fork, UT
Good to see you found your way here Brendon! I was actually going to send you a link tonight but now I don't.

Got most of the roll bar-forward tubes fitted up. Just have a few diagonals left in the suspension box. For those who have contimplated round vs. square tubes. I really like working with the round when compound angles are involved. I usually cut the tube a couple inches long and take off small cuts adjusting the angle and clocking of the tube in the tube jigger as I go. You do have to be mindful of the order you install the tubes though due to the fishmouth. I almost got into trouble on the diagonal across the hood area. Got it in with a large mallet, just glad I didn't need to cut off a side of the fishmouth or remove a side tube.

I also fit up the steering rack and column. Didn't have to modify either one. And since the rack is almost in line with upper wishbone and bumpsteer is adjusted at the uprights, I didn't need to build much adjustment into the mounts. Just one oversized hole to make sure the rack is level in the car. Building the human into a car is always a challange though. Put the steering wheel where I thought I would like it and I was looking though it. Took some measurements and built new mounts and it was sitting in my lap. The final location turned out perfect. I can tilt the wheel up and there is plenty of room to slide under. One of the design goals was to make it possible for my 6'8" brother to be able to drive it (he doesn't have to be overly comfortable though.) I think he'll be able to fit. I'm just glad I'm a more average 5'11". The Caravan column is alittle heavy but the combination of not haaving to modify, easy to mount, tilt, colapsing, self-cancelling turn siginals, high/low beam, hazards, a couple of misc. switches and a steering locking key mechanism I think it is worth it. Maybe I'll put a lightweight "shaft" and removeable wheel in the future but for now it was free and I want to keep the build moving quickly. I can also put the intermidiate shaft high and run floor mount pedals or rought it lower and it would fit between the clutch and brake of a reverse swing pedal set. haven't decided yet but I thinks I'll go with a low clutch/brake, high throttle like Blackbird is doing.


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PostPosted: March 8, 2009, 12:59 am 
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Joined: July 14, 2008, 9:07 pm
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Location: SW FL
Okay Motive...

I just found this thread about an hour ago, wow. I really like your "open source" idea and I am ready to go! Being a Mopar guy through and through anyhow, I especially like that the donor is a Caravan and that the rack length is unmodified. This is looking really good.

May I ask when you think you'll be posting the upright drawings? I'd like to just order up a set of your uprights but I'm in a huge budget crunch. I'll just have to do things the old fashion way, layout and make things by hand like I was taught in A&P school.

On another note, its been 18 days since your last post and I think high time for an update :P. Cant wait to see more!

Mike Bynum

Oh yeah, I forgot to ask... I saw the earlier answer to wheel size as being 15" or up. What I wanted to know is what diameter tire have you designed for"


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PostPosted: March 8, 2009, 11:41 pm 
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Auto Motive, My friends call me Motive
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Sorry about no updates. Both my grandparents on my Dad's side aren't doing too well so I've been out of town visiting them. I am very lucky to have all my grandparents alive and want my kids to get to know them. Its sad though realizing just how soon that opportunity will pass. I owe a large portion of my love of building things to my Grandpa Briggs so I hope no one minds me getting alittle sentemental hear if I say Thanks Grandpa.

I'm also sorry I haven't posted the drawings yet. I'm almost done with the front wishbones and bracets. I want to make sure everything will work out in steel before I have to change the design again. tire diameter is 24".

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PostPosted: March 9, 2009, 12:59 am 
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Count your blessings; both my grandfathers (and one grandmother) passed away before I was born. To this day I wish I'd known them...

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PostPosted: March 9, 2009, 8:10 pm 
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Family first, Motive. Plenty of time for the rest. Thnx for taking the time to respond.

Like Kurt, three of my grandparents passed before I was born and the last soon after, I have no recollection. My own daughter, now 10, has only my mother left and she is a thousasnd miles away. She has some memories of both her grandpas but who she misses the most she doesn't even remember anymore... my wife's mother. My daughter and mother-in-law are definitely kindred spirits. I'm sure Rosie is my daughter's guardian angel.

Copy the 24" tire. Looking forward to more when the time is right.

Mike Bynum


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PostPosted: March 10, 2009, 12:32 am 
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Sorry to hear that... I kinda wish I new my grandfather better. He passed away when I was 3, yet everyone says "You're just like him." Ok, so he was a machinist and DIY automotive guy... great, I just wasn't old enough to learn from him to apply it to my engineering studies. I mean, he popped in a Super Beetle engine in the family VW bus. :twisted: Only got grandma left and she's not doing well either, so I know what you're going through. I can't bear to think of the day...

Motive, take care of family first... they're the ones who will help you through tough times and vice versa. A car is just an object, a want, not a need.

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PostPosted: March 10, 2009, 2:28 pm 
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Sorry to hear of your loss. It's funny how the car crazy gene skips a generation. My grandfather was into all the same things I am and I miss him terribly. He died about 20 years ago But I'm glad I got the chance to know him.


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PostPosted: March 10, 2009, 8:55 pm 
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Location: SW FL
Hey Motive,

When you have a chance... What year Caravan is your donor, specifically what is the bolt circle diameter because of some 15*6J Neon wheels I found. Couldn't believe how light weight they are when I handled them. Anyhow, before I spring for them I need to compare. I figure on a 6" wheel I should be able to run a 205/55/15 to be able to sneak up on the 24" diameter.

TIA,
Mike Bynum


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PostPosted: March 11, 2009, 11:29 pm 
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Auto Motive, My friends call me Motive
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Thanks everyone for the concern about my grandparents! I think sometimes we have special connections to our grandparents because we never listen to our parents (maybe thats why car stuff skips a generation, pmatolcsy?) Maybe we should start a side thread about all our grandparents. Anyway, they are doing alittle better now. Grandma almost died this week because they nicked her intestine durring an opperation but she is recovering well after the fix-it op. I ask my grandpa what the most important thing he has learned in his life was. His answer was "I wish I would have spent more time with my kids" so yes family comes befor the car. As a rule I never work on it before I kiss the kids goodnight and that pretty much means weekends to. When I work in the garage I rarely get to bed befor 2AM but the loss of sleep is worth it to have that family time. One bit of advice my other grandpa once gave me was "the only thing you can do with gloves on is piss your pants!" That means its time to get back to work.

Dodgedart, the caravan was a 96. I think they are the same till 2000. The models with 14" wheels have a 5X100 bolt pattern, 15" and 16" used a 5X114 so you have some opptions. I don't know what neons used.

Anyway tacked on the drivers side suspension to make sure everything works as designed and it does! I like it when that happens. I used the sub-jig again to line up the mounts. drilled a 1/4" hold were the pivots were to go and installed rod though the bushings and a-arms and though the sub-jig. Made it easy to get everything right. just had to make sure rods were parallel to get the rear mounts in the right spot. I'll probly have to cut them off and repossition after finnal welding but I'll be able to use the same technique to remount so it wont take long. Now that I got that done I'll work on the drawings before going back to the garage to as they say watch this spot!

Oh yea. bushings are delrin. I wish I had made a set out of aluminum to use during welding. I thought I blinded myself with burning delrin fumes for a minute or two.


Attachments:
File comment: incorperated gusset into bottom rear mount
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File comment: Note: angled bottom rod end towards front of car to work with ackerman angle to achive 30* of steering lock.
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File comment: 25* shock angle if convetionaly mounted. I'm going pushrod though.
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withupright.jpg
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PostPosted: March 12, 2009, 12:36 am 
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motive wrote:
As a rule I never work on it before I kiss the kids goodnight and that pretty much means weekends to. When I work in the garage I rarely get to bed befor 2AM but the loss of sleep is worth it to have that family time.


Sounds like I'm preaching to the choir, but let's not forget our wives. There's no one in the family more important than them. Not that 2am is an uncommon time for me to be in the shop, as well...

Back to cars...

Do you have adequate droop available on that lower rear pickup point?

-dave

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PostPosted: March 12, 2009, 7:05 pm 
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Motive I like your work,i want to start as soon as possible,when are you releasing drawings,dodge caravan is that the chrysler voyager in europe?cheers


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PostPosted: March 13, 2009, 3:01 am 
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Spend time with the wife?!!! how do you think I got 2 kids before I turned 30? Droop was one thing I had wanted to check. 3" before the arm hit the build table, still a 1/4" up by the backet before it hits the frame.

dodge caravan, grandcaravan, and chysler voyager use the same parts. Got the upright drawings done tonight. will convert to PDF and post tomorro. Its a pain making them useful for tapemeasure and grinder type building. I never dimention anything when drawing for CNC and don't need hidden lines and all the other details.

If people are interested in starting before I finnish I could start posting more drawings but I don't want to here any complaining when your half done and realize you don't like what mine ends up looking like!

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PostPosted: March 13, 2009, 8:59 pm 
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Drawings now up!!!!

Look here http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=6376&p=62465#p62465

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PostPosted: March 26, 2009, 11:23 pm 
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Auto Motive, My friends call me Motive
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Just a quick update to let everyone know that I'm still plugging away at it. Progress has seemed slow but I've build the other set of a-arms, brackets, rack mount that locks in the orientation of the pinion shaft, turned a temporary adapter between the rack and the rod end at the upright, and finnaly checked the rack placement to make sure any bumpsteer could be handled. The rack length was slightly longer than I had measured which ment I could raise it up slightly and put it more inline with the upper a-arms!
I've also been working on the pushrod suspension to get a nice gradual riseing rate. I'll post some pics when it LOOKS like there has been progress.

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PostPosted: March 27, 2009, 11:15 am 
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motive wrote:
Spend time with the wife?!!! how do you think I got 2 kids before I turned 30? Droop was one thing I had wanted to check. <snip>

Please, motive, try to stay on subject. :-)

Your car is looking absolutely fantastic! I love the front spindles. The whole cartridge spindle thing opens up huge possibilities.

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