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PostPosted: October 10, 2015, 9:07 am 
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Location: Pemberton, BC
I've been moving slowly through the registration quagmire, as the permanent rain clouds are slowly gathering overhead, when I finally thought I had a small success. Yesterday afternoon I did get a note that the VIN was on its way to the inspection shop. So talked to the shop, which will be busy next week, but got an appointment for the following Monday. Found a scale that may work, not too far away, so it looks like I'm gaining. But not so fast. Opened my email this morning to find the ICBC confirmation letter, and they are asking for a structural integrity inspection. I didn't think it was a requirement, but rather at the discretion of the inspector. I know it has been discussed many times before, and I've read all the posts, but I have not seen that ICBC was asking for it. Any thought you guys (Mark, Al, Cory et al)?
And obviously it is a long weekend to stew this over :BH:

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PostPosted: October 10, 2015, 10:26 am 
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I talked to a guy named Terry Deacon a few years ago about this exact issue. He was the Superintendent of inspections for northern BC at the time, and he told me that icbc required a structural integrity if a vehicle was written off and then repaired. If it had never had a Vin registered with icbc, they wouldn't request the structural. He did say that a shop could request it for a homebuilt though. Maybe try to get in touch with someone in a similar position with cvse in your area to see what they say?
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PostPosted: October 10, 2015, 3:16 pm 
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Location: Gabriola, B.C.
Martin,
on the Island here. If you have had a ticketed, certified welder observe the construction of the frame at any time perhaps that he could swear to the integrity of the welds. They are not looking for engineering details. More difficult with a painted frame and new observer. Mine was done at a certification shop with welder on staff. 5 years ago now.
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PostPosted: October 10, 2015, 8:12 pm 
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Any body shop can give you a structural, the downside being an extra cost.
I have no idea why some do and some don't, I didn't need it from ICBC and my inspection shop didn't suggest I needed it.
Maybe it depends on which ICBC rep you get.
Now just to throw a strange bend to it all, my friend was building a FF5 Daytona replica, major bucks with 65 grand into it.
We were both registering our cars about the same time, I didn't require a structural frame inspection.
His did, cost him an extra 100 bucks to have a body shop guy come over to his inspection shop.
You could maybe talk to a body shop that is certified and see if he would go over to your inspection place and do a certification on the same day.
They don't really do much, just look it over.

What I am going to say next is very speculative, but my friend thinks it might be a reason. When I went to have my car weighed I went to a gov't highways scale.
The fellow weighed the car and gave me a scrap of paper that showed the weight and initialed it.
Then we got chatting and it turns out he was a sports car guy had a 350Z, after we yakked and we also puttered around the parking lot a bit.
And he spent time looking the car over, he said I can maybe give you a more official document, so he went inside the office and found a form which he filled giving the weight etc.
He signed his name and gave his CCVS number, I wasn't aware that CCVS guys also looked after the scales.
I sent that form to ICBC with my stuff, my friend thinks his signature went a long way towards input on my inspection.
I cant say if it really did one way or another, probably will never know, my inspection lasted an hour, the only issue was my front brake lines were braided lines which were stronger than regular hoses, but not DOT certified, the inspector said replace them as soon as you are able and gave me my pass.
I did replace them with a DOT certified line some time later.

The bottom line is contact your inspection shop tell them you need a structural as well, and structural is a loose term, they just want it inspected as a stand alone item.
Ask your shop if they can arrange or want you to arrange for body shop rep to come over at the same time as their inspection, you don't need to go to two places separately.
It'll work out fine.

Al

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PostPosted: October 10, 2015, 9:34 pm 
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Location: Pemberton, BC
Thanks, Kristian and Al,
your insights are always appreciated. I had mulled this over all day, and rather than question their request, I'll try to get a body shop to do an inspection. As you said, Al, any ICBC approved shop should be able to do it. Luckily we have one here, so I'll go and talk to them on Tuesday. Unfortunately, they are newer owners; the previous guy was a snowmobile buddy and hot rodder himself, so it would have been easy. We'll see. If all fails, I can still go back and question the need for it.

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PostPosted: October 12, 2015, 2:42 pm 
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Location: BC, Canada. eh?
Weird. I've never heard of ICBC asking for a structural in the VIN process before. It concerns me, as I hope to begin the registration process in the spring ('course, I've said that for the past several consecutive springs).

Unfortunately, there seems to be neither rhyme nor reason to the process in BC. One shop will tell you one thing, a different one will have completely different ideas. One inspection place shop I heard of demanded airbags, for example (obviously, an impossibility due to the ground-up engineering required). A shop I had lined up (a buddy, race-car builder & hotrod guy) had looked at my frame & build quality, and said "Just bring it down to me. It'll pass, first time.". Unfortunately, he suddenly died of a massive heart attack (at 34 years of age) while resting on the beach with his family. He was a great guy, and I miss him. Now, I need to find a whole new shop to do the inspection. Shopping around for the right one is important, I think.

PLEASE, keep us posted!

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PostPosted: October 12, 2015, 3:41 pm 
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Bottom line is probably if at all possible try to find a shop familiar with certifying hotrods. Not because they are better, but because they know how the system works, what they can do and what they can not.
My local corner garage is an inspection agency, just 3 blocks from my house.
When I chatted with them they admitted that they had never done a homebuilt, mostly just out of province vehicles.
Honestly I got to thinking that they were really not comfortable doing a scratch built car, though they would go through the process for sure.
I didn't bother them any more.
Also most hot rod shops are very busy, they probably won't give you much information unless they see your build in advance.
I went to a few shops with some photos of where I was at on my car, picture of a real 7 etc, asked if it was something they would be interested and tips to make it go easier.
Also if an issue or problem comes up, the hot rod guys already know who to talk to in ICBC to work the problem out as they have may already done so on previous occasions.
They just might have a working rapport with a particular agent, not necessarily the same for a shop that has not done many, if any at all.

Al

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PostPosted: October 12, 2015, 5:23 pm 
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Location: BC, Canada. eh?
Excellent advice!! My buddy (building the same basic car I am) has a guy he knows who does custom car build inspections. It hadn't occurred to me to get him to help in the VIN acquisition process, but that makes a lot of sense.

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PostPosted: October 13, 2015, 2:38 am 
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Location: Holden, Alberta, Canada
Martin
I hope all goes well with 'the process'. From what I have read is there not some precedence set in BC regarding the registration of a new ubuilt vehicle?
You'll getter done.

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PostPosted: October 13, 2015, 12:03 pm 
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Thanks, guys.
I agree with Al, that would be the best way to go. Unfortunately, for me the logistics are just more difficult. To come down to the City, with a trailer, would be more than a full day event. If necessary, it is doable, but first I'll give it a shot locally. The benefit of knowing everyone, does make the conversations easier and hopefully make the process easier. Today, I'll chat with the bodyshop and see where that goes.
In the meantime, I have a trailer that I custom built for my airplane. I was going to cut it up the next few days, and turn it back into a utility trailer. However, now I'm thinking that it maybe worth my while, to turn it into a car trailer. It'll still work as a utility trailer, so I could kill two birds with one stone.


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PostPosted: October 13, 2015, 12:11 pm 
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Location: Kamloops, BC, Canada
There's a few of us in BC with registered cars alright. It's kind of strange that ICBC is requesting the structural instead of an inspection shop though. It's funny, everybody has to play by the same rules as far as inspections go, but every inspector seems to interpret the rules differently. Before I applied for my VIN, I hauled the car around on a trailer to a few shops to see which ones would be willing to even look at it. I got a few flat out no's because even though it meets all the rules, it's not a normal car. Lots of guys just weren't comfortable with the idea. I'm sure you'll get a VIN for it eventually, just have to jump through all their hoops. I would talk to someone else at ICBC, and maybe see if you can get someone in charge to give a reason. Getting ahold of someone in charge of inspections at CVSE probably wouldn't hurt either. Good luck.
Kristian

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PostPosted: October 13, 2015, 12:46 pm 
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Location: BC, Canada. eh?
For those who haven't seen it, here's the rationale info sheet regarding structural inspections:
http://www.cvse.ca/vehicle_inspections/PDF/Structural_Integrity_Process_Guideline.pdf

Clearly, it's intended for "rebuilt", "irreparable", "salvage" and "modified" OEM vehicles that have been crashed & written off (under those circumstances, completely understandable IMHO), but it certainly shouldn't apply to our cars which are none of the above. It's concerning because it basically requires that you produce a complete, running car, with no paint etc. on any of the frame, for inspection :roll:

Meanwhile, the form itself (to be filled out by the inspector) refers almost exclusively to wheel alignment:
http://www.cvse.ca/vehicle_inspections/PDF/CVSE0032-Fillable-Structural_Integrity_Declaration_Report.pdf

Common sense would dictate that our cars are not applicable to the process (as wheel alignment is already covered in the standard vehicle inspection anyway).

If this a newly-added requirement, it's clearly been added by some bureaucratic pundit who can't distinguish between the above vehicle categories and our vehicles.

Ours should, for the most part, be considered one of three types (under new-VIN BC rules):

"Repli-kits", vehicles intended to resemble a previously made model of vehicle, and are constructed of both new and refurbished parts (those of us building 7 replicas SHOULD fall under this category) and NOT built from a kit;

"Repli-Cars" are those made to resemble a previously made model of vehicle, nade entirely of new components (i.e., a true "kit car", purchased & assembled by the owner (with no owner-fabrciated parts), and;

"Ubilt", which are cars made from new and refurbished components, where the car does NOT resemble any car ever made previously.

Strangely, a lot of the Locosts built in BC have ended up having to be classed as "Ubilt". They most assuredly do not fit into that category by its very definition, and should (IMHO) be classed as "Repli-Kits" (only by definition, and certainly not by the name of the class).

So...the structural integrity testing applies to previously totalled, OEM-built vehicles, with already-existing VIN numbers. I am at a complete loss as to how that could possibly apply to us. Such are the inequities of the BC vehicle licensing and inspections process :roll: :ack: :BH:

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PostPosted: October 13, 2015, 1:05 pm 
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My Eleven went through as a Repli-kit. The person I talked to at ICBC said because I had purchased a "body kit" from a manufacturer it was a repli-kit. I had been previously warned about the structural inspection by a friend who built a Locost, but in talking with the guy from ICBC, this never came up. I did phone around to various bodyshops who handle the structural inspections, and most said no, but there was a place in Burnaby that would do it. Luckily, I never had to have it structurally inspected. To be honest, I think the whole BC VIN application process depends on who handles your file, some of the ICBC employees know what they're handling and others dont.


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PostPosted: October 13, 2015, 1:10 pm 
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Thanks so much, zetec.
Very good information. I had the same questions about ubuilt vs Repli-kit, but was told that it would be a ubuilt. And the structural integrity report makes no sense.
I'll still talk to the body shop, but will probably talk to ICBC afterwards. Compared to this, the aviation inspection was a walk in the park. :BH:

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PostPosted: October 13, 2015, 1:12 pm 
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As near as I can tell, at some point someone inadvertently reversed the names & definitions of "RepliCar" and "Repli-Kit", and no one has seen fit to correct the error. No WONDER there's so much confusion!! :shock:

My first wife's father was the Superintendent of Motor Vehicles for BC and, back in the day, I would have simply pointed this out to him over dinner or coffee, and it would have been fixed rather quickly.

Back then, ICBC was entirely separate, and dealt solely with insurance issues, leaving the vehicle standards stuff to the experts at the Motor Vehicles Branch.

Since all responsibility for vehicle standards was handed over to ICBC (admittedly, experts in the field of insurance, rates, etc.), the actual vehicle expertise is gone, bureaucracy is rampant, and no one seemingly takes ownership of the issues, since ICBC is focused primarily on insurance...and profit margins.

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Last edited by zetec7 on October 13, 2015, 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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