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PostPosted: September 26, 2008, 5:58 pm 
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Joined: August 18, 2007, 5:27 pm
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Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Went to the MTO today with everything I needed to get my VIN. The first step in getting my car legal for the road. This isn't going to be as easy as I had hoped.

Everything I've done is based on this: http://www.canadianrodder.com/features/fyi/registering.htm

Today started off with a trip to the lawyer to get my Affidavit/Declaration done. This was pretty painless.

I headed over to the MTO (square one location in Mississauga) to get my VIN. First issue. The person helping me has never done this. She knows it can be done. Other person in the office said she hasn't had anyone in 3 years ask her to register a "Kit Car" and she can't remember what the process is. Great.

They call Kingston, where MTO main office is, they talk for a while and agree to fax over everything I've brought in so Kingston can look at it. I then wait for 30 minutes while they do this. They come back asking for a Declaration of Origin on my engine. Not something, according to the URL above, that I need. They don't know where I can get such a declaration, they simply want it. Considering I bought the '94 Camaro engine from a scrap yard that thought it was a '96, I don't think the scrap yard will be any help whatsoever.

I talked to them a little longer trying to explain that the engine is used, and I don't believe I need such a declaration. All I get was a Kingston said' response. After talking to the more senior official at the office it was agreed they would take copies of my paper work, and look into it and call me.

That's where things sit now. I'm sure that if I had an MTO official that has dealt with kit cars before, I wouldn't have to go through this bureaucratic hell, but that's where I am.

Argh. This is going to take much longer than I imagined. *sigh*

Anyone from Ontario dealt with this and help shed some light?

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PostPosted: September 26, 2008, 6:47 pm 
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Why wouldn't the scrapyard be of help? You just need a receipt, right? They probably don't care what year the motor is or anything, so could write up a receipt for darn near anything (assuming they knew they sold it to you).


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PostPosted: September 26, 2008, 9:51 pm 
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Location: Guelph, Ontario, Canada
Before I started building my Locost, I went to the MTO to ask about the process of legalizing kit cars. She was rather helpful to me. She was able to answer most questions I asked. (can't remember any of the questions I asked) She gave me her name, and said that I should direct future questions to her. I believe she was the head lady at that branch.

I think that you should try a couple different MTO's till you find one thats useful. From my understanding, if you have proof of EVERYTHING (engine, plans, steel, bolts and everything in between) and you pass the safety inspections, you should have little holding you back.

You've probibly seen this stuff before, but I'll post it anyways:

KIT CAR REGISTRATION REQUIREMENTS


Thank you for your enquiry about registering a rebuilt or custom-made motor vehicle (e.g. kit car).

DESCRIPTION ON VEHICLE PERMIT:

KIT CAR - a complete body of a motor vehicle, not including an engine, chassis or driver train. Kit body is a replica of an existing or vintage motor vehicle. Kit cars are registered in Ontario as:
MAKE: Manufacturer of kit MODEL: KIT
MODEL YEAR: Year that the kit car was completed and registered with the ministry.
V.I.N.: If there is not an existing 17-digit V.I.N. on the dashboard, you may request the licence office to provide you with a ministry assigned V.I.N. starting with “ASD”, which you should affix to the dashboard. A V.I.N. is needed before you can obtain a Safety Standards Certificate.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

REGISTRATION REQUIREMENTS:

The following items should be presented at any at any independently operated Driver and Vehicle Licence Issuing Office - http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/issoff.htm in Ontario:

1. Completed Application for Registration (SR-LV-6) (forms available at any independently operated Driver and Vehicle Licence Issuing Office in Ontario).
2. A notarized affidavit (Statutory Declaration). Refer to the information sheet below for details that must be stated on affidavit.
3. Photocopies of bills of sale/receipts for main components (i.e. body, chassis/frame, engine, etc.), if available.
4. Permit(s) for vehicle(s) used to rebuild vehicle (for rebuilt/kit vehicle), if available.
5. Safety Standards Certificate - http://192.75.156.68/DBLaws/Regs/English/900611_e.htm for a passenger/commercial vehicle or a motorcycle. For complete equipment list, please see MINIMUM SAFETY STANDARDS FOR ON-ROAD USE.
6. Drive Clean Vehicle Emissions Pass Report not required. Effective January 1, 2002, kit cars (MODEL "KIT") will be exempted from the Drive Clean program. For more information, please contact the Drive Clean Office at:
Ministry of the Environment, Drive Clean Office, 40 St. Clair Ave. West - 4th Floor, Toronto, Ontario, M4V 1M2, Web site: http://www.driveclean.com/, TEL: 1-888-758-2999 OR (905) 837-5839.
7. Proof of empty weight.
8. Canada Customs Form or documentation with Customs Clearance stamp for parts (e.g. body of vehicle) which were obtained outside Canada. For more information on importation, please call: Registrar of Imported Vehicles Tel: 1-888-848-8240 or (416) 626-1803, E mail: info@riv.ca, Web site: http://www.riv.ca
9. 8% retail sales tax on the declared value of a kit car. For more information, please contact your local Retail Sales Tax field office, or: Ministry of Finance, Retail Sales Tax Branch, Toll-Free: 1-800-263-7965 or (905) 433 6000.
10. Plate & permit fees: (a) To register the vehicle and attach plates when the vehicle owner has his/her own plates $10.00; (b) For new plates and permit $20.00. Note: For plate validation, the owner will be required to buy validation from the date of vehicle registration to the assigned validation expiry date. Fees will be calculated according to the class of vehicle and declaration(s) (e.g. Northern Ontario Resident).
11. Proof of identity for applicant who has never registered a plate or vehicle with the ministry.



NOTARIZED AFFIDAVIT REQUIREMENTS

A notarized affidavit is a sworn statement (also called a Statutory Declaration) made before a Commissioner of Oaths or a Notary Public. It is needed to establish vehicle ownership of all parts used in the vehicle's reconstruction, and to provide a full vehicle description. All independently operated Ontario Driver and Vehicle Licence Issuing Offices may accept affidavits.

CONTENTS

1. Full legal name, address and signature of person making the declaration;
2. Vehicle description - minimum requirements: make, model, model year, body type and class). If you are attaching permits and/or bills of sale for the component parts, please mention this. Where permits or bills of sale are not available, you must include the V.I.N.s and descriptions of all vehicles from which main component parts have been taken, and list previous owner information for such vehicles.
3. Vehicle Identification Number (V.I.N.), or a statement that a ministry approved/assigned V.I.N. will be used;
4. Year vehicle was rebuilt/completed;
5. Statement that the applicant is the legal and rightful owner, has the right to register the vehicle described, and how ownership was obtained.
For more information, see KIT CAR NOTARIZED AFFIDAVIT Q & A’s.

KIT CAR NOTARIZED AFFIDAVIT Q & A’s

1. What information does the Ministry of Transportation (MTO) require in the notarized affidavit about the kit car body (fibreglass or sheet metal body)?
Please provide the name, address, city, and province/state/country of the person or company where you purchased the kit car body, as well as the exact date of purchase [month, day and year]. This date must match the date on the invoice/bill of sale for the kit car body.
2. If the previous owner/seller of the kit car body did not actually manufacture the kit car, what information does MTO require about the kit car manufacturer?
If the person/company who sold you the kit car body did NOT manufacture the body, please list the name and address of the kit car manufacturer in your affidavit (the kit car manufacturer’s information sheet/brochure/specifications about the kit car may be attached, if available). The first four letters of the kit car manufacturer’s name will be the MAKE of your kit car. The MAKE will need to be corrected, as well as correcting the MODEL to KIT, if the MAKE does not match the name of the kit car manufacturer.
3. What information does MTO need if I constructed the kit body myself (“homebuilt”)?
If you made the body yourself [e.g. you purchased sheet metal panels to construct the body, and mounted it on a custom built or specialty frame/chassis], please explain in the affidavit exactly how you constructed the body and where [name, address, purchase date] you purchased the materials for the body (and specialty frame or unibody, if applicable).
Attach the bill(s) of sale/invoice(s) for all materials used in the construction of the body. If you used a kit as a guide to construct the body, or used a specialty frame to construct the kit, this is still considered a kit car. The MAKE will be whoever is the maker of the kit used as a guide to construct the vehicle. The kit maker is considered the manufacturer in this case. MTO needs the name and address of the kit maker, and the date [month, day and year] you purchased the kit.
4. What information is needed for imported kit car parts?
If you imported the kit car parts disassembled, and completed construction of the vehicle in Ontario, you do not need a Vehicle Import 13-0132 form, because the Vehicle Import 13 0132 form is only supplied for fully assembled vehicles. Depending on when you imported the kit car parts into Canada, MTO will need either the document(s) with the Customs Clearance stamp, or if you imported it after March 1, 2002, you may have been given the new Vehicle Import Form 3 for parts. You must attach a photocopy of either one of these Customs forms to your affidavit, and mention in the affidavit, the date you imported the part(s) into Canada.
5. Do I need to list everything about the origin of the parts in the affidavit, when I have already attached copies of the bills of sale/invoices which give you that information?
Yes. The notarized affidavit is legal proof that you own the completed kit car, and you are making a sworn statement about where and when you obtained or purchased all the main component parts, and when you completed construction of the vehicle. The bills of sale/invoices are in support of the statements you have given in the affidavit, and the affidavit must be complete and accurate. MTO microfilms the affidavit and all your attached bills of sale/invoices and other documentation as a permanent record of this vehicle, for law enforcement purposes, and for the information of potential future owners of this vehicle.
6. Does MTO need the bills of sale for every part used to construct the kit car?
MTO needs to know from whom you purchased the materials used for the body, the chassis (a.k.a. frame, or the unibody), and the engine. You must give a reason in the affidavit why you don’t have a bill of sale (e.g. bill of sale was lost, vendor didn’t give you a receipt, etc.) for any one of, or any materials used in construction of, the three major component parts.
If any information is missing as to the name and address of the vendor or the date of purchase, please explain why. If you bought these parts from a wrecking yard or an auto parts flea market, and the bill of sale is not available, MTO still needs the name and address of the wrecking yard or flea market and the date you purchased the parts.
Please do not attach a Certificate of Origin, Title or NVIS, unless this is your only proof of purchase, and you do not have a bill of sale or invoice for the part in question. If you must use one of these three documents, please state in the affidavit which part of the vehicle it is for [e.g. kit car body], and clearly state that it is not for a completed vehicle.
7. Should I send in photographs of the kit car?
Please do not send in photographs of the vehicle. Photographs are not legal proof of the origin of the vehicle parts. The legal proof is the sworn affidavit, stating the complete vehicle description and where the major component parts were purchased (body, chassis/frame & engine), with invoice(s) attached, if available.
8. Can I use the model year, make and model of the vehicle the kit car is a replica of, on the vehicle permit (e.g. 1923 Model T-bucket)?
No. A kit car is not a genuine antique or historic vehicle, even if a number of original antique or vintage parts were used in its construction. MTO is responsible for providing accurate information on our vehicle records to support law enforcement and consumer protection. Using the model year, make and model of an antique or historical vehicle for registering a kit car could be considered fraud or misrepresentation. A notarized affidavit is a sworn statement, and you are liable for any fraudulent statements made in the affidavit. As vehicle description information, please do include in the affidavit, what make, model and model year the kit car is designed as a replica of.
9. Why can’t I have the historic or antique model year, make and model on the vehicle permit, when this would make my vehicle more valuable, or would qualify my car for a special auto insurance rate?
A vehicle permit is designed to describe a vehicle accurately, not to determine its value. For problems obtaining affordable auto insurance, please call: Financial Services Commission of Ontario (FSCO), Toll-free: 1-800-668-0128 or (416) 250 7250. If you need proof of the kit car’s actual value, you may wish to obtain an independent appraisal of the vehicle, from an appraiser knowledgeable about specialty and classic cars. Appraisals are recognized by insurance companies for evaluating insurance rates, and they can also be used to show potential purchasers of the vehicle.
10. What vehicle identification number (VIN) information is needed for the kit car body on the notarized affidavit?
Most kit car bodies do not have a VIN on the dashboard, or if there is a kit car VIN, it is not a 17-digit VIN, which complies with the VINA standards for VINs. Unless your kit car has a 17-digit VIN, MTO will give your vehicle an assigned 17-digit VIN starting with “ASD”. If there is an existing kit car VIN, please list it in the affidavit. If there is no VIN, please mention that the kit car body does not have a VIN.
If your kit car already was given a “RBT” or “HOM” VIN at the time of the original registration by the issuer, (kit cars should always be given an “ASD” assigned VIN) MTO will not change the existing VIN, we will just change the model to “KIT.” Please mention the existing “ASD”, “RBT” or “HOM” VIN in the affidavit, if applicable.
11. What vehicle identification number (VIN) information is needed for the chassis or frame on the notarized affidavit?
If the chassis (frame) used in the construction of the kit car has a VIN, you must include the chassis VIN in the affidavit, and also the model year, make and model of the vehicle where the chassis was taken from. MTO will also need the name, address of the previous owner of the chassis and the purchase date, and attach the bill of sale/invoice for the chassis. Please also attach to the affidavit, the vehicle permit for the chassis, if it is available. NOTE: The chassis VIN will not appear on the vehicle permit, but it is needed as background vehicle description information on the affidavit. If the chassis/frame is a specialty frame without a VIN, or a unibody was used, please explain this in the affidavit, and the name, address and purchase date both of the vendor, and the name and address of the specialty frame or unibody manufacturer, if it is different from the vendor. If the chassis was custom built for a specific purpose or use, such as for military use only, please explain this in your affidavit as a reason there is no chassis VIN.
12. What vehicle identification number (VIN) information is needed for the engine on the notarized affidavit?
Please list the serial number of the engine in your affidavit, the model year, make, and model of the vehicle the engine is from, and if known, the VIN of the vehicle the engine was taken from, the name and address of the previous owner of the engine and purchase date. NOTE: Provided that MTO issues a vehicle permit with the model “KIT”, the vehicle is exempt from Drive Clean emission inspection requirements, regardless of the engine’s model year. A “KIT” vehicle permit will be issued, once your affidavit is accepted by MTO.
13. Why does MTO need me to mention in the affidavit the exact date that I completed construction of the kit car, and to state that I am the legal and rightful owner of the completed vehicle?
It usually takes several years from the date the owner purchases the kit car body and chassis to complete construction of the vehicle. The completion date verifies the date on which the kit car was actually built. The statement that you are the legal and rightful owner of the completed vehicle is a standard statement, required at the end of every affidavit, which is used in support of vehicle registration. You are making a sworn statement that you are the legal owner, and you are verifying that all the parts used in its construction were obtained legally.


MININUM SAFETY STANDARDS FOR ON-ROAD USE


Safety standards are listed in Regulation 611 - Safety Inspections http://192.75.156.68/DBLaws/Regs/English/900611_e.htm under the Highway Traffic Act, and the minimum equipment standards under the Highway Traffic Act.

To purchase a copy of the Highway Traffic Act, please contact:
Publications Ontario, Toll Free: 1-800-668--9938 or (416) 326 5300, Web site: http://pubont.stores.gov.on.ca/pool/eng ... alogue.asp?

Highway Traffic Act, online: http://192.75.156.68/DBLaws/Statutes/En ... 0h08_e.htm

Minimum equipment requirement references in the Highway Traffic Act are as follows:

Section 62 - Lamps & Turn Signals
Section 64 - Brakes
Section 66 - Mirrors, Windshield Wipers, Oedometer & Fenders/Mudguards
Section 69 - Tires
Section 72 - Safety Glass
Section 75 - Muffler & horn
Section 103 - Reflectors
Section 106 - Seat belt assemblies
Section 142 - Brake lamp
And:
Highway Traffic Act Regulations:

Regulation 587 - Equipment: http://192.75.156.68/DBLaws/Regs/English/900587_e.htm
Regulation 625 - Tire Standards & Specifications: http://192.75.156.68/DBLaws/Regs/English/900625_e.htm



For more information:

(Ms.) P. D. MacMillan
Senior Enquiry Analyst
Licensing Administration Office
Ministry of Transportation
Licensing Administration Office
2680 Keele Street
Main Floor, Building A
Downsview, Ontario M3M 3E6

E-mail: PD.MacMillan@mto.gov.on.ca
Tel: (416) 246-7103, extension 1503
Fax: (416) 235-4414

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My Build Log: http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=3054


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PostPosted: September 26, 2008, 10:08 pm 
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Joined: August 18, 2007, 5:27 pm
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Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
gtivr4 wrote:
Why wouldn't the scrapyard be of help? You just need a receipt, right? They probably don't care what year the motor is or anything, so could write up a receipt for darn near anything (assuming they knew they sold it to you).


I brought the receipts. That's what I don't understand. They want something else.

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PostPosted: September 26, 2008, 10:09 pm 
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Joined: August 18, 2007, 5:27 pm
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Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
maxlessca wrote:
Before I started building my Locost, I went to the MTO to ask about the process of legalizing kit cars. She was rather helpful to me. She was able to answer most questions I asked. (can't remember any of the questions I asked) She gave me her name, and said that I should direct future questions to her. I believe she was the head lady at that branch.

I think that you should try a couple different MTO's till you find one thats useful. From my understanding, if you have proof of EVERYTHING (engine, plans, steel, bolts and everything in between) and you pass the safety inspections, you should have little holding you back.

You've probibly seen this stuff before, but I'll post it anyways:

KIT CAR REGISTRATION REQUIREMENTS



I followed everything in those instructions. I did my home work. I think you're right, I think the MTO office makes a difference. *sigh*

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