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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: May 25, 2012, 12:45 am 
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Joined: September 30, 2005, 1:28 am
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Location: Sunny-Okanagan, Canada, eh?!
Car felt ABSOLUTELY GREAT.

I feel rusty.

And quite exhausted - am I getting that old?

Won FTD. Nowhere near top PAX, but that's ok.

edit: I guess I didn't mention this was autocross racing

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Last edited by SkinnyG on May 26, 2012, 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: May 25, 2012, 12:58 am 
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Joined: July 6, 2008, 12:48 am
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Location: Amador County, CA
What is FTD?

What is PAX?

and wheres the pics?!

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PostPosted: May 25, 2012, 1:29 am 
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Joined: January 10, 2008, 4:47 pm
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Location: Massachusetts
FTD is awesome, Fastest Time of Day. I haven't done autocrosses so can't explain the other stuff. Hillclimbs and time trials at tracks give a special trophy for FTD. It means a lot, it doesn't matter what class you're in. Everyone is eligible. Sometimes cars come in that can't fit in any class and they can still run for FTD...

When you get an FTD in a Locost or Seven replica, you are slaying giants!

That's great news. It really helps sell our home made cars too!

:cheers:

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PostPosted: May 25, 2012, 2:02 am 
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"Slaying giants" is of course heavily dependent upon the hardware and drivers that show up to your local autox events. :wink:

PAX is Professional Autocross, and is also sometimes referred to as RTP or Racers Theoretical Performance. It is an index that allows drivers in completely different classes to directly compare their times, with a focus on the drivers abilities more than the cars performance potential. To be totally accurate this also assumes the cars are equally well prepared within their respective class rules. Yet even for people with less than ideal cars for their class it still provides a great method of benchmarking how you and your car are performing, especially against more skilled (and consistent) drivers in better prepared cars. Many clubs will also offer an FTDI (Fastest Time of the Day Indexed) award/trophy that is coveted especially amongst drivers not running a car in one of the fastest classes. Heck, I almost considered having my solitary FTDI T-Shirt framed...Of course that's mostly because my wife keeps trying to throw 'that old rag' out.

This concept tends to trip up people not already familiar with it, so it's often easiest to explain with an example. Assume you're driving a nationally competitive car in a class with a .832 index factor and I'm doing the same in a class that has a .910 index factor, your fastest time was 72.115 seconds and my fastest was 65.935 seconds. Now your indexed time would be (.832)(72.115)=60.000 seconds and my indexed time would be (.910)(65.935)=60.001 seconds. So even though my raw time was over 6 seconds faster than yours, thanks to my beastly car, you were theoretically the faster driver.

Anyways, congrats on the FTD. I thought every non-alien driver feels rusty their first event or five of the season.

And yes...this thread needs more pictures!

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PostPosted: May 25, 2012, 11:10 am 
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Location: Sunny-Okanagan, Canada, eh?!
A 7 ~should~ get FTD. But to really truly be fast, you need to win by large enough margin. If I'm only 0.5s faster than a Miata, I'm really not awesome. But if I can clean the Miata's clock by 3.5 seconds, then I truly am a better driver.

#1 in raw time,

#18 in PAX (mathematical handicap to put everyone on the same playing field)

http://www.okracer.com/phpBB3/viewtopic ... e431b4dc45

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PostPosted: May 25, 2012, 12:38 pm 
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We are Slotus!
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Joined: October 6, 2009, 9:29 am
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Location: Tallahassee, FL (The Center of the Known Universe)
Yo, Skinny!
WOOHOO! FTD, good for you! Congratulations... And, not to be combative 8) with Driven5... But, it seems to me that you just naturally beat the hell out of all the cars/drivers that didn't show up! :mrgreen:

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am I getting that old?

Nahhhhh, you's just "Vintage"!!!

:cheers:
JDK

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PostPosted: May 25, 2012, 5:21 pm 
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Man, I sure wouldn't PAX out very well...with my 32 horse DMod Locost on high mileage tires.

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PostPosted: May 25, 2012, 11:16 pm 
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Anytime I hear the word "index" I lose interest - at that point the rules have wrecked it for me. I just want to drive and not have to run my time through a math equation to see how "fast" I am. I guess I belong to the old school of "run what you brung" and the fastest time wins. If I beat a Z06 I'm going to feel great and could care less what some PAX time is.

As far as how a Locost "should win", that's going to be directly related to how twisty the course is. Super twisty, yes, but if it's run at a superspeedway, as some are here in SoCal, Locosts will fall flat on their face due to their horrendous aerodynamics. Dennis Palatov (of dpcars.net) once ran a 500 hp BMW M5 against an A.r.i.a.l A.t.o.m. Power to weight, the AA should have cleaned house, however, once aerodynamics was involved, as in long straightaways, its terrible aero killed it and the M5 won. A Locost would suffer the same fate. I guess my point is, don't assume the Locost is a giant killer; you have to pick and choose your battles.

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PostPosted: May 25, 2012, 11:56 pm 
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I pay attention to FTD and totally ignore the PAX, as do most of the people I know.

We truly run against each other and then see how we as a group performed when compared to the total overall.

At least the places where I run the PAX guys tend to be the weinnies.

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PostPosted: May 30, 2012, 3:10 am 
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JackMcCornack wrote:
Man, I sure wouldn't PAX out very well...with my 32 horse DMod Locost on high mileage tires.
Not so much...But that then again, your raw time might not fare so well either. That doesn't mean you can't have just as much fun though, and probably manage to surprise at least a few people with it along the way!

KB58 wrote:
Anytime I hear the word "index" I lose interest - at that point the rules have wrecked it for me. I just want to drive and not have to run my time through a math equation to see how "fast" I am. I guess I belong to the old school of "run what you brung" and the fastest time wins. If I beat a Z06 I'm going to feel great and could care less what some PAX time is.
To each his own. It just depends on whether the focus is on how fast the cars are vs how fast the drivers are. Most, if not all, of the nationally competitive drivers I've known or met seem to prefer being the fastest driver of the day rather than driving the fastest car of the day...Although ideally one could aim to be the fastest driver of the day in the fastest car of the day. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: June 6, 2012, 12:25 am 
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Joined: July 17, 2009, 10:56 pm
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Yeah pax sucks. :D

Too many varibles in course design,lenght,average speed,weather etc etc too believe its anything other than a random guess on the day.I've set ftd at every single event I've attended with my car in nearly 2 years,I average around 2 seconds clear of the next fastest cars but lose by seconds on pax.I use the poor showing on pax as part of the drive that forces me to make the car better and to also drive it better,just yesterday I brought the sawzall out and cut off close to twenty lbs of weight followed by ordering a much smaller/lighter fuel tank. :wink:


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