LocostUSA.com

Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
It is currently April 17, 2024, 8:14 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: May 25, 2012, 12:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: September 30, 2005, 1:28 am
Posts: 1330
Location: Sunny-Okanagan, Canada, eh?!
Car felt ABSOLUTELY GREAT.

I feel rusty.

And quite exhausted - am I getting that old?

Won FTD. Nowhere near top PAX, but that's ok.

edit: I guess I didn't mention this was autocross racing

_________________
The Lethal Locost
The Lethal Locost 2 - Even More Lethalerer


Last edited by SkinnyG on May 26, 2012, 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: May 25, 2012, 12:58 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: July 6, 2008, 12:48 am
Posts: 653
Location: Amador County, CA
What is FTD?

What is PAX?

and wheres the pics?!

_________________
+442 - Miata


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: May 25, 2012, 1:29 am 
Offline
The voice of reason
User avatar

Joined: January 10, 2008, 4:47 pm
Posts: 7652
Location: Massachusetts
FTD is awesome, Fastest Time of Day. I haven't done autocrosses so can't explain the other stuff. Hillclimbs and time trials at tracks give a special trophy for FTD. It means a lot, it doesn't matter what class you're in. Everyone is eligible. Sometimes cars come in that can't fit in any class and they can still run for FTD...

When you get an FTD in a Locost or Seven replica, you are slaying giants!

That's great news. It really helps sell our home made cars too!

:cheers:

_________________
Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: May 25, 2012, 2:02 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: April 26, 2008, 6:06 pm
Posts: 3268
Location: Under the weather. (Seattle)
"Slaying giants" is of course heavily dependent upon the hardware and drivers that show up to your local autox events. :wink:

PAX is Professional Autocross, and is also sometimes referred to as RTP or Racers Theoretical Performance. It is an index that allows drivers in completely different classes to directly compare their times, with a focus on the drivers abilities more than the cars performance potential. To be totally accurate this also assumes the cars are equally well prepared within their respective class rules. Yet even for people with less than ideal cars for their class it still provides a great method of benchmarking how you and your car are performing, especially against more skilled (and consistent) drivers in better prepared cars. Many clubs will also offer an FTDI (Fastest Time of the Day Indexed) award/trophy that is coveted especially amongst drivers not running a car in one of the fastest classes. Heck, I almost considered having my solitary FTDI T-Shirt framed...Of course that's mostly because my wife keeps trying to throw 'that old rag' out.

This concept tends to trip up people not already familiar with it, so it's often easiest to explain with an example. Assume you're driving a nationally competitive car in a class with a .832 index factor and I'm doing the same in a class that has a .910 index factor, your fastest time was 72.115 seconds and my fastest was 65.935 seconds. Now your indexed time would be (.832)(72.115)=60.000 seconds and my indexed time would be (.910)(65.935)=60.001 seconds. So even though my raw time was over 6 seconds faster than yours, thanks to my beastly car, you were theoretically the faster driver.

Anyways, congrats on the FTD. I thought every non-alien driver feels rusty their first event or five of the season.

And yes...this thread needs more pictures!

_________________
-Justin

"Orville Wright did not have a pilots license." - Gordon MacKenzie


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: May 25, 2012, 11:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: September 30, 2005, 1:28 am
Posts: 1330
Location: Sunny-Okanagan, Canada, eh?!
A 7 ~should~ get FTD. But to really truly be fast, you need to win by large enough margin. If I'm only 0.5s faster than a Miata, I'm really not awesome. But if I can clean the Miata's clock by 3.5 seconds, then I truly am a better driver.

#1 in raw time,

#18 in PAX (mathematical handicap to put everyone on the same playing field)

http://www.okracer.com/phpBB3/viewtopic ... e431b4dc45

_________________
The Lethal Locost
The Lethal Locost 2 - Even More Lethalerer


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: May 25, 2012, 12:38 pm 
Offline
We are Slotus!
User avatar

Joined: October 6, 2009, 9:29 am
Posts: 7651
Location: Tallahassee, FL (The Center of the Known Universe)
Yo, Skinny!
WOOHOO! FTD, good for you! Congratulations... And, not to be combative 8) with Driven5... But, it seems to me that you just naturally beat the hell out of all the cars/drivers that didn't show up! :mrgreen:

Quote:
am I getting that old?

Nahhhhh, you's just "Vintage"!!!

:cheers:
JDK

_________________
JD, father of Quinn, Son of a... Build Log
Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: May 25, 2012, 5:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: July 29, 2006, 9:10 pm
Posts: 3164
Location: Oregon, usually
Man, I sure wouldn't PAX out very well...with my 32 horse DMod Locost on high mileage tires.

_________________
Locost builder and adventurer, and founder (but no longer owner) of Kinetic Vehicles


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: May 25, 2012, 11:16 pm 
Offline
Mid-Engined Maniac

Joined: April 23, 2006, 8:26 pm
Posts: 6418
Location: SoCal
Anytime I hear the word "index" I lose interest - at that point the rules have wrecked it for me. I just want to drive and not have to run my time through a math equation to see how "fast" I am. I guess I belong to the old school of "run what you brung" and the fastest time wins. If I beat a Z06 I'm going to feel great and could care less what some PAX time is.

As far as how a Locost "should win", that's going to be directly related to how twisty the course is. Super twisty, yes, but if it's run at a superspeedway, as some are here in SoCal, Locosts will fall flat on their face due to their horrendous aerodynamics. Dennis Palatov (of dpcars.net) once ran a 500 hp BMW M5 against an A.r.i.a.l A.t.o.m. Power to weight, the AA should have cleaned house, however, once aerodynamics was involved, as in long straightaways, its terrible aero killed it and the M5 won. A Locost would suffer the same fate. I guess my point is, don't assume the Locost is a giant killer; you have to pick and choose your battles.

_________________
Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://midlana.com/stuff/book/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains
Both available from https://www.lulu.com/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: May 25, 2012, 11:56 pm 
Offline
Toyotaphobe
User avatar

Joined: April 5, 2008, 2:25 am
Posts: 4829
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
I pay attention to FTD and totally ignore the PAX, as do most of the people I know.

We truly run against each other and then see how we as a group performed when compared to the total overall.

At least the places where I run the PAX guys tend to be the weinnies.

_________________
mobilito ergo sum
I drive therefore I am

I can explain it to you,
but I can't understand it for you.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: May 30, 2012, 3:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: April 26, 2008, 6:06 pm
Posts: 3268
Location: Under the weather. (Seattle)
JackMcCornack wrote:
Man, I sure wouldn't PAX out very well...with my 32 horse DMod Locost on high mileage tires.
Not so much...But that then again, your raw time might not fare so well either. That doesn't mean you can't have just as much fun though, and probably manage to surprise at least a few people with it along the way!

KB58 wrote:
Anytime I hear the word "index" I lose interest - at that point the rules have wrecked it for me. I just want to drive and not have to run my time through a math equation to see how "fast" I am. I guess I belong to the old school of "run what you brung" and the fastest time wins. If I beat a Z06 I'm going to feel great and could care less what some PAX time is.
To each his own. It just depends on whether the focus is on how fast the cars are vs how fast the drivers are. Most, if not all, of the nationally competitive drivers I've known or met seem to prefer being the fastest driver of the day rather than driving the fastest car of the day...Although ideally one could aim to be the fastest driver of the day in the fastest car of the day. :mrgreen:

_________________
-Justin

"Orville Wright did not have a pilots license." - Gordon MacKenzie


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: June 6, 2012, 12:25 am 
Offline

Joined: July 17, 2009, 10:56 pm
Posts: 378
Yeah pax sucks. :D

Too many varibles in course design,lenght,average speed,weather etc etc too believe its anything other than a random guess on the day.I've set ftd at every single event I've attended with my car in nearly 2 years,I average around 2 seconds clear of the next fastest cars but lose by seconds on pax.I use the poor showing on pax as part of the drive that forces me to make the car better and to also drive it better,just yesterday I brought the sawzall out and cut off close to twenty lbs of weight followed by ordering a much smaller/lighter fuel tank. :wink:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
POWERED_BY