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PostPosted: June 19, 2007, 2:38 pm 
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Location: Corning NY
Cages and racing a locost. I live REALLY close to Watkins Glen International. And one of the schools (TrackMasters) does not allow "convertables or Roadsters". So I emailed TM and i sent a few pics along with the email. And it turns out that the roll bar is not enough and they would want a cage on the Locost in order to get out on track. I personally do NOT want a full cage. I asked if a bolt on cage would be alowed ontrack, and i sent him (R1 Sevens) pic. And i was informed that if it looked like his then he would allowed. Thoughts?


Thanks for the pic Jeff :wink:

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PostPosted: June 19, 2007, 3:15 pm 
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Make the single hoop, street roll bar a bolt-on with horizontal plates behind the seats. The track cage will attach to these plates.

Remove the street windshield. The windshield mount behind the scuttle should be strong and part of the frame. The track cage will have plates that bolt on just as the street windshield does. A plexiglass windscreen can be incorporated into the cage. An extinguisher and camera mount tab could also be installed on the track cage. Hang it from the ceiling in the garage when your not going to the track.

For side protection with easier access, some cages have a quick release tube on the drivers side.

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PostPosted: June 20, 2007, 9:47 am 
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If my car was to be for the street and the track I would do it like R1's with a removable cage and roll bar that could be interchanged. The problem is, DOM is expensive, and so is bending it. I think the difficulty you are going to have is getting the custom design bent up without breaking your budget. Just a bender and die set for your cage's DOM is going to set you back at least around $400. Maybe this is something one of the kit companies could offer. A proper cage is something that I would likely shell out the money for, especially if it was removable.

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PostPosted: June 20, 2007, 10:23 am 
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Yea it would be a expencive project... But if it ment the only way to get on the track then i guess that i don't have much of a choice?

Rumor is that a friend of my fathers has a pipe bender.... So if that is true then i could have the pipe bent for very little or no cost 8) But the only problem is that he is 1.5hrs drive away... hummm

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PostPosted: June 20, 2007, 11:49 am 
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KENLUDE97 wrote:
Yea it would be a expencive project... But if it ment the only way to get on the track then i guess that i don't have much of a choice?

Rumor is that a friend of my fathers has a pipe bender.... So if that is true then i could have the pipe bent for very little or no cost 8) But the only problem is that he is 1.5hrs drive away... hummm


Pipe benders usually aren't that useful for bending DOM tube since it is sized differently etc. Also, for a roll cage to pass inspection there has to be minimal ovalization of the tube which usually requires a fancy expensive bending rig. Do you have any race shops in town? People have had luck in the past finding dirt track car fabricators to build something for them.

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PostPosted: June 20, 2007, 12:01 pm 
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If you plan on going to the track often...then the cage is good. But, if you are only planning to do track events every once in a while (like once a year or something) then go with the roll bar and find a club that will let you run with just the roll bar. Many clubs/tracks have different rules regarding roll bars and cages. There is probably one that will let you run a Solo 1 legal (now called club trials or something) roll bar in an open car.

Also, are you talking about racing or just doing track days?

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PostPosted: June 20, 2007, 12:05 pm 
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Yea It is difficult to bend DOM. I don't know the exact type of "pipe bender" that he has. But he is quite the frabracator. He won the ~2002 national champ Extreme show truck. The undercarrage of his machine is UNREAL! and he made it all, like the 4wheel steering system, all suspension ect. So it could be a really good bender...

There is not many race shops that i know about.... There are a few machine shops, hummm but there is a "custom bike shop" that just opened up.... I wonder...

Thanks

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PostPosted: June 20, 2007, 12:10 pm 
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R1 Seven wrote:
If you plan on going to the track often...then the cage is good. But, if you are only planning to do track events every once in a while (like once a year or something) then go with the roll bar and find a club that will let you run with just the roll bar. Many clubs/tracks have different rules regarding roll bars and cages. There is probably one that will let you run a Solo 1 legal (now called club trials or something) roll bar in an open car.

Also, are you talking about racing or just doing track days?



I don't plan on wheel to wheel racing, more like driver ecducation and open track days. With the track only 15min from my house its hard not to want to use it.

There are lots of "clubs" that rent the track, moslty Porsche/BMW clubs... and sometime they look down on non Brand drivers and some will not even let you in without the brand.

I like the TM club as they seam much more safty focused, than some of the others, and they will not hassel you because of car brand.

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 Post subject: Roll Cages
PostPosted: June 20, 2007, 6:00 pm 
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A couple of thoughts:

A fixed cage may complicate obtaining insurance for a road-registered car. That crossed my mind 2 days after I welded the roof bars to the roolbar and windshield frame on my At-om clone. Hagerty gave me crap on the Locost 7 since it looked like a car that "might" be raced. That car only has a roll bar. A full cage will be harder to explain away. A removable cage may make that easier. (Or "Photoshop"-ping the submitted photos.)

The SCCA wants a 1.5 inch OD x 0.095 inch thick DOM roll cage for a car under 1500 pounds. I just paid $3.14 per foot for 23-ft stick of that tubing last Friday. The only restriction on bending is that radii are no less than 3 tubing diameters. My JD2 bender and die set satisfies the radius requirement.


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PostPosted: June 25, 2007, 12:24 pm 
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Funny, I have never been to an HPDE or Time Trial where they required a full cage in order to run in a convertible. With so many Miata's around here, they would be turning away half their audience if they did. :D

I imagine that Trackmasters has some insurance limitations with running "open" cars.

The usual requirement for a convertible (at least around here) is a proper roll-bar with good rearward bracing and tall enough to meet the "broomstick rule" - your helmet should fit below a line from the top of your cage to the top off your windscreen.

In regards to running with other car groups, I run an RX-7 and have done events with the PCA, Alfa-Romeo Club, and BMWCCA. In all cases the vast majority of the drivers there were great people and warmly welcomed the drivers of "other" brands. In fact I think that it was at the PCA event where for once my car got a lot of attention as people came by to get a look at the "little rotary engine" :)

I guess The Glen may be a little diffferent environment than what we have down here at VIR and Summit Point.


-b


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PostPosted: June 25, 2007, 1:29 pm 
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Yes they require the cage or a coupe type car. It is for saftey that they require the cage.

https://www.trackmasters.com/Page.asp?Script=8
Per there site
"We do NOT allow convertibles and roadsters in our school."

And i found a Pipe bender... So if i do go that route i have acess to a bender. And yes it is the good EXPENCIVE type and make some very very nice bends.

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 Post subject: Re: Roll Cages
PostPosted: July 6, 2007, 10:01 am 
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JonW wrote:
A couple of thoughts:

The SCCA wants a 1.5 inch OD x 0.095 inch thick DOM roll cage for a car under 1500 pounds. I just paid $3.14 per foot for 23-ft stick of that tubing last Friday. The only restriction on bending is that radii are no less than 3 tubing diameters.


2007 GCR's

Minimum tubing sizes for (all Showroom Stock, Touring and Improved Touring Category auto-mobiles registered after June 1, 1994) for all required roll cage elements (All dimensions in inches):
Up to 1500 lbs. 1.375 x .095 DOM / Seamless / Alloy
1501-2200 lbs. 1.500 x .095 DOM / Seamless / Alloy
2201-3000 lbs. 1.500 x .120 DOM / Seamless / Alloy
or
1.625 x .120 DOM / Seamless / Alloy
or
1.750 x .095 DOM / Seamless / Alloy

from http://scca.com/_FileLibrary/File/GCR2007.pdf


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PostPosted: October 3, 2007, 1:44 am 
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I'm kinda bringing the thread from the dead, but if I were you I'd go with both cage and bar.

I personally feel that with the seven, being such a tiny car, you really want all the protection you can get while dicing it out on the track with cars that weigh 2, 3 and some that are almost 4 TIMES heavier.

Get a bolt in cage like the one that Jeff has and use the same mounting plates of the chassis to fabricate a roll bar that would work for the rest of the time.
I'd even look into doing a 6 point roll bar with diagonals that go from the sides of the main hoop forward and down to the lower attachment point of the cage, just for some extra side protection.

HTH, even if a little late,

Moti

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PostPosted: March 30, 2008, 9:15 am 
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Here's one company I found to bad they're overseas.

http://www.procomp.co.uk/rollcage.html


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PostPosted: March 30, 2008, 10:50 am 
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Don't forget some safety netting, if your going for a cage. And arm restraints. I don't think the size of other cars on the track is a huge issue. Something to be aware of, but a cement wall or armco barrier is much more of a concern.

It's great your close to that track. I think a big part of the fun is the sheer history of the place.

The place your considering for school is requiring more equipment because they are more serious and experienced then PCA or BMWCCA. I'm thinking it's a indication of quality. Please let us know how this goes. :D

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