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PostPosted: August 5, 2008, 11:53 pm 
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I have been hearing all kinds of issues with 7's not being able to run wheel to wheel track due to failing the broomstick test and not having side impact bars.

What have most of you been doing to get around this?


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PostPosted: August 6, 2008, 9:18 am 
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I would imagine anyone crazy enough to want to run these in real racing would build a cage into/onto thier car.

Hehe crazy..... I think I might want a cage for public road use.


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PostPosted: August 6, 2008, 9:52 am 
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Why aren't the frame rails considered side protection? Normal cars don't have those, they have doors.

Some of these cars have what appear to be somewhat ornamental roll bars, they would not qualify for racing.

It might be sensible to upgrade the tubing in the frame rails around the cockpit, but i think some of side protection being put on is a little extra. Any comments on what the minimum requirement is for side protection in SCCS?

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PostPosted: August 6, 2008, 10:27 am 
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I've seen people running these in wheel to wheel for years, but it is only in the past year or so have I been hearing tales of them being turned away.

I was wondering if anyone was getting by with beefed up side & frame rails. Some guys who have Ultralites have put what looks like nerf bars to the sides of their roll bars. I was hoping not to have to do that.

The broomstick test seems to be applied differently depending upon which governing body you are running under.

Have you guys seen a relaxed standard at HPDE over true wheel to wheel racing?


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PostPosted: August 6, 2008, 11:38 am 
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I'm guessing the reason they don't consider the frame rails suitable side impact protection is that the drivers arm hangs out over them most of the time. I added side bars to mine when I saw Jawfish do the same in his build log. Now that they are on there I'm glad I have them. They give me an addition measure of security and confidence on the road since my shoulder won't be the first thing a car hits if somebody runs a light or stopsign etc. I've also found they are useful as an armrest when cruising and as something to hang onto when climbing in and out.

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PostPosted: August 6, 2008, 11:44 am 
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horizenjob wrote:
Why aren't the frame rails considered side protection? Normal cars don't have those, they have doors.


Normal doors have reinforcement in them to aid in preventing the other car from entering the cabin.

Its probably an insurance issue. People are getting awfully pussyfooted when it comes to doing dangerous things, even to yourself. The problem is all it takes is just a few morons that wont fess up to their mistakes that ruins it for everyone.


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PostPosted: August 6, 2008, 12:48 pm 
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mcfandango wrote:
horizenjob wrote:
Why aren't the frame rails considered side protection? Normal cars don't have those, they have doors.


Normal doors have reinforcement in them to aid in preventing the other car from entering the cabin.

Its probably an insurance issue. People are getting awfully pussyfooted when it comes to doing dangerous things, even to yourself. The problem is all it takes is just a few morons that wont fess up to their mistakes that ruins it for everyone.


Amen to that.

[boring story] When I was on the board of directors of our local SCCA chapter, some kid showed up in his new WRX STi. He had never autocrossed in his life, yet was out there driving at 11/10 right off the bat. I guess he thought that having that car automatically would make him drive like Colin Mcrae. Anyway on his second run he got way out of shape exiting a turn and instead of going two feet in and sliding to a stop, he kept the throttle planted and did some ugly maneuvers before sliding off the course and sideways up onto an 8"tall sidewalk. He busted some wheels and bent some control arms etc. but IMO he go off easy. He could well have rolled it. (and would have if the wheels didn't break)

Anyway to make a long story short, he decided that it was all our fault because in his opinion our course was unsafe. (based I assume on his vast autocross experience) He badmouthed us all over the web, on various forum sites warning others to not run our events lest they meet the same dreadful fate. He threatened the national org with lawsuits etc. but he could produce no evidence that we did anything wrong. I'm not sure what ever came of it, I had to step down since I got busy having kids etc.

Moral of the story. As long as people like him are around, people who refuse to be held accountable for their own mistakes, the rules are just going to continue to get more strict. If you run an event in the Northeast and some guy named Stoffa shows up, encourage him to take the day off. If he stays, stick him in the slowest group and watch him like a hawk. [/boring story]

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PostPosted: August 6, 2008, 1:15 pm 
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chetcpo wrote:
[boring story] When I was ...


You should have tagged that "depressing story".

People are idiots. I stand by my quote in dhempy's signature.

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PostPosted: August 6, 2008, 3:21 pm 
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chetcpo wrote:
chapter, some kid showed up in his new WRX STi. He had never autocrossed in his life, yet was out there driving at 11/10 right off the bat. I guess he thought that having that car automatically would make him drive like Colin Mcrae.


Same thing happened at a local autox. Relatively new driver in an STi kept only 1 foot in. From my point, a chain link fence stopped him from really ending up in a ditch. Of course, I believe he owned up to his mistake and didnt blame anyone else.

I do not know the full story but as I understand it something similar is why we can't use the local baseball teams parking lot for autox. Damage to their property that wasnt fessed up to by the do'er.

Back on track. I cant see any broomstick test working on a 7 unless there was a cage. Support structure up front is usually buried far below even the nose cone.


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PostPosted: August 6, 2008, 3:28 pm 
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Exactly. I've never seen a "broomstick test" in progress, but if laying it from the top of the rear bar to the top of the nose constitutes the test, that's very bad. As you say, the actual structure that's to save your head is quite a bit lower than the top of the nose. It's one big reason why my next project has a cage as integral instead of a bolt-on affair.

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PostPosted: August 6, 2008, 3:28 pm 
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PostPosted: August 6, 2008, 3:34 pm 
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Bad pics I know but we had a cage built into our frame...ugly or not it was built to rulebook spec (SCCA) and passes for what we have in mind once all said and done (hillclimbs, time trials, etc...)

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Please disregard the disaster of wires lol

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PostPosted: August 6, 2008, 3:55 pm 
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Two Boras?

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PostPosted: August 6, 2008, 4:34 pm 
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217 Racing wrote:
Bad pics I know but we had a cage built into our frame...ugly or not it was built to rulebook spec (SCCA) and passes for what we have in mind once all said and done (hillclimbs, time trials, etc...)


Looks like those side bars may interfere with your elbows when sawing madly at the wheel. Have you attempted such a simulation with the seat installed?

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PostPosted: August 6, 2008, 4:42 pm 
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Definitely a concern of ours, when we were measured up for it they tried to bring the bars as out of the way as possible while still being able to get in the car lol

So far we haven't seen it being an issue but I'm sure a lot of things will come up first drive we didn't anticipate :)

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