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Which Engine ?
Suzuki G10 3 cylinder engine 26%  26%  [ 7 ]
600CC 4 Stroke Production Motorcycle Engine 67%  67%  [ 18 ]
Toyota AFE 7%  7%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 27
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PostPosted: July 16, 2009, 10:53 pm 
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I was admiring one at the last divisional autox I was at. I do not recall but I would be surprised if it was anything thicker than 1/2".


My FF is a '78, so not very aero. I think the tubing is 16 Ga. ERW. The lengths are just the tubing without the rod end part. FOr what it's worth:

Rear Upper control arm, single link 5/8" x 7"
Rear Lower control arm, reverse wishbone 7/8" x 12"
Rear trailing radius arms upper and lower 7/8" x 27"

Front Upper wishbone 7/8" x 8"
Front Lower wishbone 1" x 16"
Front Steering arm 5/8"

Bolts on the rear suspension generally seem to be 3/8" shaft and some of them are in single shear.

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PostPosted: July 17, 2009, 9:55 pm 
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Thanks for the dimensions. I appreciate it. I was reading they were 1/2" and I thought that was light. Especially if you happen to get a little airborne over the bumps. :lol:

:cheers:

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PostPosted: July 18, 2009, 6:39 pm 
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Hey Fred. When are we going to be able to add posts to the Formula 993 site? :?:

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PostPosted: July 18, 2009, 10:05 pm 
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As soon as you sign up here http://locostusa.com/formula993/index.php and let me approve your membership Graham,

I`ve been a bit busy, you don`t need to waite for the invite, just sign up.

Cheers,

Fred


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PostPosted: July 18, 2009, 11:06 pm 
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Thanks Fred.
:cheers:

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PostPosted: July 25, 2009, 9:49 am 
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I don't mean to come off as rude, as I am a newer member to this forum, but I had plans to build a book locost with an RX7 donor i have available until i started reading this proposal for a 750 Formula based class. I was 100% into the idea of building this until i got to page 22 and the vote for Bike engines came up. These are race cars not race bikes, car motors belong in cars, bike motors belong in bikes (personal opinion) and the 600cc bike engine idea totally through me away from the build. I see it is still going to be happening with the Geo engine and i would still love to be a part of that. But i wanted to express a few thoughts and make a suggestion if it has not already been explored. The Big issue alot of people have is the FWD trans axle, i agree with Fred, no trans axles. This is not in the spirit of the class. As for the solid rear axle, i agree it is in the spirit of the class to use it but i think more cars will be designed with the proposed DeDion setup as more IRS units are available. I know this is the route I will go if this takes off at all. Now the other thing it seems to be is that the people pushing for the bike engines seem to be saying 2 things: First off, the Geo engine is not readily available enough to last the next 10 years. While I agree with this conclusion, as they are not to common here in the Chicago area as i checked all the usual sources with little luck on anything decently priced for a donor, but I will track one down if i have to. Secondly, it seems like the people lobbying for bike engines just seem a little unsatisfied with the 65ish HP provided by the Geo 1.0L engine. Due to this I have another common option to explore if it would be of interest. The Ford 2.3 from the Fox mustangs and a number of other fords only puts like 80-90 hp to the ground. Also the GM 2.5 Iron Duke only puts down the same numbers and was made for many years. Both engines can still be readily found in the junkyards and are available with carb. or EFI depending on year. Both engines have a wide array of RWD trans options so there is no need to mess with adaptor plates, they are a little on the heavier side but they make more power so it balances out. Allow open exhaust mods and free modification of the intake pipe before the throttle body and that's it. This should be enough to allow people to get the 100ish HP they seem to want and and the limited modifications even not allowing fuel system tuning will still allow for a difference int he engine as anyone who knows anything about tuning an engine will tell you something as simple as a header will change your power band a 4-2-1 will give you low to mid range a 4-1 will give top end and so on. Builders will be able to play with intake and exhaust options to get the engine with a power curve they can live with and put the numbers around 100-110WHP. I think this is the best option to keep with the spirit of 750F. I know it is more power but look at it from this point. These are really easy to come by power plants with years of knowledge already behind them. And they are so close in performance (trust me I've owned) that you can actually at this point give builder the option as to what one they want to use and still have a level playing field. The extra power will be offset by a little extra weight, however the extra power (nearly 40-50 hp more) will allow the use of slightly larger 50+" solid axle options as the slightly larger wheelbase created by them will be useful. This will eliminate the need for the DeDion completely and allow the Solid Axle only rule.
I think this is the best approach. It keeps the spirit of the 750F but modernizes it to fit N.A in 2010. This is not UK and not 50-60 years ago. Not many Americans like the idea of a 65HP car, Americans have always been about more power. Add to that the fact that the tiny cars are not readily available here as they are and were in the UK. The Spirit of the 750F was to be able to provide a racing class where a person can build a budget race car and compete without spending more money than they will earn in the next 10 years to do so and be competitive. This meant using what was available at the time. For us to emulate that we should take the rules and adapt it to what we have. In today's day and age in N.A. we can still keep the general rules , solid axle only, 6" slicks (or as discussed up to 8" slicks probably a good idea for 100hp), No trans axle, require a driveshaft, etc... but we have engines readily available for dirt cheap that make a little more power. This will make it a more attractive class, maintain the basic guidelines, and keep it a builders class with more than one engine option that can be found anywhere. I don't know where you are at but here i can't turn around with out seeing a 4cyl mustang or rusty old firebird with 2.5 selling for under $400. These options can give you a engine trans and axle. How much budget friendly can you get. And with the number of these engined produced over the years we will have a steady supply for years to come the junk yards are full of them! I think this is your best bet to make this class a success keep the rules, up the power a bit (and in turn the speeds) but keeping it at a cost effective level. You should still be able to get a season out of tires if you really tried with 8" tires. Cheap, Easy, Fun. And keep the 750F spirit here in N.A. just updated a little for the times.
With that said as long as there will be no bike engine garbage I plan to build for Formula 993 regardless of Geo Ford GM or whatever the engine option is and hope to see you all out there on the blacktop helping to make this class a success.

-- end rant --

-Jim


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PostPosted: March 20, 2010, 2:29 pm 
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Has this idea died out? Just curious...


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PostPosted: March 20, 2010, 3:13 pm 
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Not sure. I pulled out back in October and have gone on to start a single seater build. Been quiet here for a while.

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PostPosted: March 20, 2010, 3:21 pm 
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I joined the 993 forum, hoping for fresh info.. stagnant...

I have to agree with the last post, that more engine options should be available...


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PostPosted: March 20, 2010, 3:35 pm 
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One the engines beside the bike motor I was pulling for was a Toyota 4AFE. 1600cc, pretty cheap and a lot of them around and around 100hp. I felt that would work but it got voted out. I can not really see a 55hp engine. There has to be quite a bit of fun grin for me to be happy. That was just my opinion and I wish the guys (if they follow through) all the best.
:cheers:

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PostPosted: March 20, 2010, 3:49 pm 
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The 4a was the one I voted for, too... It came stock in one of the best selling small cars of all time, meaning millions of them... and cheap...


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PostPosted: March 20, 2010, 3:50 pm 
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Similar to the Saturn 1.9 motors...


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PostPosted: March 20, 2010, 6:23 pm 
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With my single seater I wouldn't mind hooking up a 4AFE motor to a VW transaxle as an option. That could make for a bit of fun :P . What do you think or anybody else out there. It could be cheap and fun. I plan on having a removable sub frame and be able to slide a car/transaxle combo in it or a bike motor and independent set up in there. Any interest. :?:
:cheers:

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PostPosted: March 20, 2010, 6:50 pm 
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A longitudinal transaxle? Sounds good...

What kind of final weight are you aiming for?

I think perhaps a new thread is in order...lol! Or if you've started one and I'm not finding it, perhaps a linky link?


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PostPosted: March 20, 2010, 8:41 pm 
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I have built the frame from the rear bulkhead forward and suspension and steering. Early stages but you have to start somewhere. Goal weight with me in it and a bike configuration would be at 1000lbs. Car motor etc about 11-1200.


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