LocostUSA.com

Hi all,

I am still at information collecting stage of my build.

I am thinking of getting a welder and some square tubing just to practice my welding skills.

So if I remember it right, locost generally use 1in square tubing right? What kind of steel? Where to get them?

Also for the welder, I have a flux welder from harbor freight... It's too small for the build. I need a MIG welder. So which brand of MIG welder should I buy? I have limited budget, I can't afoord the fancy ones. And it is mainly going to be used for the build. Is the harbor freight one ok? What kinda of price tag am I looking at? Any suggestion is welcome. Thanks in advance!@

Here's the thing about welding. If you build a Locost frame, you'll be a welder. Once you're a welder, lots of tasks suddenly need welding. It's like the hammer and nail thing, except in this case the welder really is the right tool. So get the best welder you can afford. You could build a Locost frame with that HF welder, but you'd get very tired of chipping away flux. Look for 110-volt MIG welders on Craigslist. All the name brands are good, Lincoln, Miller, even Hobart. Then put your HF welder up on Craigslist.

I get my metal from Online Metals, the A36 1" square, .065 wall tube. Their prices are reasonable but not their shipping. See if you can find a local metal supply place.

The 1" and 3/4" square tube is generally 16 gauge.

I agree with buying a decent MIG welder, up front. I ended up getting a Miller 190, after suffering for years with a cheap MIG. Cheap welders break down, just when you need them not to, and since they're pretty much made "offshore", getting replacement parts can be a real pain. Get a Miller, Hobart, etc., and parts are readily available, and chances are, with a good machine, you won't need any for the duration of your build.

Also, your welds will likely be better with a good machine, as they tend to be very consistent - this results in a LOT less "iffy weld, cut it out, & weld it again" cycles.

Finally, assuming you ever actually decide you're not going to do any more welding (yeah, like THAT will happen! ) the resale value of a quality, name-brand machine will be MUCH higher...so your overall cost for having & using it will be cheaper than the "El-Cheapo" machine from the start.

I did a LOT of research before buying my new Miller 190 machine. It has "AutoSet" (simply dial the thickness of the metal you're welding, and it does the rest of the settings for you), there's all sorts of accessories available (I recently bought a Miller Spool Mate 100 spool gun to go with it, so I can weld aluminum, for example). I just did a quick check online, and it looks like they can be had new for about $900 USD. Of course, you'd still need a bottle of welding gas, but that cost is the same, regardless of whether you buy a cheap offshore welder or a name brand one. Miller also has incentive programs on all the time - I got $200USD off the price of my welder, from Miller, via a rebate check. I suspect that once they've got you into their machines, you'll stick with them.

I've talked to a lot of welders over the years, and none of them recommend a cheap machine. They've all tried them at one time or another, and ended up with quality machines instead (mostly Miller, as it happens - one of the things that helped me decide on which brand to buy).

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Scratch building, at continental-drift speed, a custom McSoreley-design framed, dual-Weber 45DCOE carburated, Zetec-engined, ridiculously fast money pit.

http://zetec7.webs.com/

For a welder I went with the Lincoln from Lowes they are around $660. I started off with the 110v and ended up returning it and upgrading to the 220v one, which is good enough to weld thicker tubing for the roll bar etc. Personally I like new for all power tools and such because you can return it if you break it especially considering you are going top be putting many expected life times worth of work on the equipment during the process of building a car.

I get all my metal from Alro Steel which luckily is on my way home from work. Typically I pay $1/lb for DOM steel or $3.50/lb for stainless or aluminium which is pricing for material that has been precut etc. Prime stock is a little more expensive but not too bad. Also don't be afraid to barter a little for damaged stock. If a 24' length is bent in the middle they sell it really cheap, as most of the Locost lengths are under 3' you can use most of the material. I got an 8'x4' aluminium sheet at $2/lb as it had a few scratches and dents in it.

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2015 & 2016 EMod Florida State Autocross Champion
2013 & 2014 DSP Florida State Autocross Champion

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I'd shop welding supply places for welders. Often the big box store models are designed for big box stores and are built to a price point and lack features. It may have since changed but Lincoln's Home Depot welders only had tapped settings for wire speed and current. If you paid more and went to a welding supply place, you could get models that had infinite adjustability. Cheap welders tend to also suck at starting welds. The welder needs to dump a lot of juice into the metal to start the arc then pull it back quickly before it melts too much. Cheaper welders seem to miss this.

Hobart's 140A 110v MIG seems like one of the best deals for the money. Even though I have a Lincoln 140C, I'd probably go that route if I had to do it again.

Also flux core is only good for welding your plow in the middle of a field on a windy day - splurge and go MIG.




And don't you dare buy more than two pieces of tubing from them or else they'll charge you a cut fee even though you're buying the tubing by the individual unit!

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-Andrew
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The Horrible Fright 220V MIG welder is less than $200. It's not as nice as a Miller or Lincoln, but it will certainly get the job done.
You'll need a gas bottle and regulator as well, so another $100 - $200 depending on the size bottle you buy. I picked up a bottle on Craigslist, getting it refilled is $45 for 160 cf of Argon CO2 blend.

One thing NOT to buy at HF is the welding wire. Go to Lowes, Home Depot, or a Welding supply store and buy good quality wire. It's about $12 for a 2 lb spool, but makes a HUGE difference over the $9 stuff at HF.

If you go with the HF welder, you're better off with the .023 MIG tip and wire than the .030 The smaller tip gets the wire speed up some and runs a little higher amperage at the same voltage as a result. The smaller wire will take a little longer to make a same sized bead and that's not a bad thing when you're learning.

If there's a metal recycler near you, get to know them. The one near me gets slightly off spec and mill over runs. I buy all of my steel there and pay 2X current scrap price. That means I could buy all of the steel to build a Locost for about $75 locally.

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Too much week, not enough weekend.

OOPS I did it again
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17496

Blood Sweat and Beers
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=15216

I am currently using at Eastwood 175 mig welder and have no complaints. Comes with 3 year warranty.

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-STu

There is no shame in defeat, so long as the spirit is unconquered

My Build Log

X 10 !

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Honey anyone?

My steel comes from a local steel supply company. If you have options on where to buy your steel, look for a place that will sell you only steel that has already been cleaned (bright/shiny) and oiled, rather than with the dull black mill scale on it. Also bring a caliper to make sure that the steel is the thickness that they say it is. I have had both problems. The most common tubing typically used on these builds is 1x1x.065 mild steel. Mild steel is a fairly generic term, but includes a variety of low carbon steels. Which specific grade isn't really that important for our purposes.

When I was looking at welders, I decided against mail order companies like Eastwood due to their warranties not being worth the paper it's written on (in my opinion) since the customer is responsible for paying the shipping both ways for warranty work. Yes I know that these are relatively simple/reliable machines, but serviceability on something this heavy that I expect to keep for a long time is still a factor for me personally. That made up my mind to go for something directly supported by my local welding supply (LWS) shop. Some of the LWS's sell and support off-brand imported welders, which may be a good option to get more bang for your buck on a new welder that will be pretty lightly used, that is expected to be upgrade in the future, or see welding more as a means to an end and don't desire to do much welding beyond this project. There is no guarantee how long any of these will continue to be supported by them though. The next step up from there would be Hobart Handler and box-store (Pro Mig/Weld Pak) Lincoln MIG's. Again, I'd probably lean towards a Hobart from a LWS. And from there up to the Lincoln Power Mig or Miller Millermatic. If you can get a good deal on a Power Mig or Millermatic, they're definitely the way to go.

I almost went with one of the LWS knock-off's, but lucked out and came across a genuinely good deal on Craigslist (uncommon with welders) for a Millermatic 140. Unfortunately, far too many people try to sell their previous versions, which are long out of warranty and of unproven usage, always claimed to be "barely used", for not nearly enough less to justify not just getting a brand new (warrantied) latest generation unit. But even if not every day, more deals will eventually come along. Once you get a feel for the market and what an actual deal for these welders looks like, you just have to watch the listings religiously and be ready to jump on it immediately. Such deals require no negotiation beyond a product demonstration verifying that it works as advertised, because by the time you get there they'll already have a line of people behind you, ready to buy with cash in hand.

That being said, plenty of people have successfully used the HF MIG for their projects as well. If you view it as potentially disposable/consumable tool, then it will probably still get you where you want to go for now.

If you're looking at used gas bottles, ensure that it's an 'owned' bottle and not a 'rented' bottle. Some sizes are exclusively one or the other, and some could be either. Best to check with your LWS how to identify. If there is a company name cast into the top ring on the bottle, it's probably 'rented'. Rented bottles are of little to no use to you, unless it's full (or nearly so) and you're paying substantially less than the value of gas inside of it.

Also, a good first project is to design/weld your own welding cart rather than buying one.

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-Justin

"Orville Wright did not have a pilots license." - Gordon MacKenzie

I just bought the HF Mig170 on sale for $169, its a 240volt model (68885), with a 75/25 bottle of gas and a HF flow gauge (94841) I had $350 invested in the whole set up. After using flux core for 20 years this is 10x better. I'm running .023'' name brand solid wire, not the HF stuff. Im very happy with being able to weld thin gage stuff now. My pile of 1x1 inch 16 ga tubing arrives tomorrow! -Vinny

I have a FirePower 130 made by Thermadyne. It comes with the connection for gas, and with CO2 it makes very nice welds. Bought it used from my son. Works weld with flux core or with solid wire and CO2.

I bought a Hobart 140 MIG to start. Now I have a plasma cutter and an AC/DC TIG on the way. I used a stick welder some about a decade ago. I even used a stick welder to weld an aluminum bell housing, it wasn't as pretty as TIG but it was functional. And since then welding never appealed to me because I thought all welding was like welding with a stick. Then my wife convinced me I needed to buy a welder and that is when I bought the Hobart. Now I will never be without a welder and since getting the Hobart I realize that welding, and metal fabrication, is going to be something I will enjoy.

Yup! I've found that ever since I got my new Miller, well, remember the expression "everything looks like a nail, to a man holding a hammer"?

That's me, with my welder (and my lathe, etc., etc.!).

_________________
Scratch building, at continental-drift speed, a custom McSoreley-design framed, dual-Weber 45DCOE carburated, Zetec-engined, ridiculously fast money pit.

http://zetec7.webs.com/

I bought my first lathe 4-5 years ago and could not believe I spent all my life without one. I sold it and bought a much nicer one last year. A lathe is something else I will never be without. My other hobby is firearms so having a lathe means I never need a gunsmith again.

Me too, to both! Nice being able to crown a barrel without having to pay someone to do it, isn't it?

_________________
Scratch building, at continental-drift speed, a custom McSoreley-design framed, dual-Weber 45DCOE carburated, Zetec-engined, ridiculously fast money pit.

http://zetec7.webs.com/