LocostUSA.com

Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
It is currently November 22, 2019, 10:47 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Caterham vs Locost Frame
PostPosted: January 5, 2009, 6:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: November 1, 2007, 10:29 am
Posts: 143
Location: Central Coast Cal.
I'm doing my due diligence and have copies of many frames but still unclear on the major difference between a $1000 frame and the frame on the $ 60,000 caterham's.
Does anyone have pictures of the Caterham's for a side by side comparison? The caterham is smaller and lighter and has evolved since the 60's and generally has been strengthed over that time. 1 x 1 sq. tubing on the Locost and MIG or TIG welding and cross bracing often of same material, what's the Caterham? Haynes and Tanner's books, have good pictures of the Locost. Probably missed this someplace in the forum's but tried. thank you


Attachments:
chrisfrombook.jpg
chrisfrombook.jpg [ 147.52 KiB | Viewed 35073 times ]
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: January 5, 2009, 6:38 pm 
Offline
Mid-Engined Maniac

Joined: April 23, 2006, 8:26 pm
Posts: 5980
Location: SoCal
I can't answer your direct question, but comparing a "$1000 frame" to a Caterham $60,000 frame isn't a fair comparision on a dollar value. One is a frame built by you in a garage and the other is only one component in a $60,000 car. If price must be compared it must be against what Caterham would charge for just the frame, not the entire car.

Regardless, if you start with the plans for the $1000 frame and use the stiffening mods that have been referenced on here, I bet it would be every bit as good as any frame sold by Caterham, or anyone else.

_________________
Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://www.midlana.com/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains, http://www.kimini.com/book_info/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: January 5, 2009, 8:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: August 8, 2007, 9:54 am
Posts: 262
Location: Dallas, TX
KB58 wrote:
I can't answer your direct question, but comparing a "$1000 frame" to a Caterham $60,000 frame isn't a fair comparision on a dollar value. One is a frame built by you in a garage and the other is only one component in a $60,000 car. If price must be compared it must be against what Caterham would charge for just the frame, not the entire car.

Regardless, if you start with the plans for the $1000 frame and use the stiffening mods that have been referenced on here, I bet it would be every bit as good as any frame sold by Caterham, or anyone else.

I am not sure what they would charge for just a frame, but the local Caterham dealer sells the base kit with everything but the engine and transmission for about $26k.

_________________
New owner of the formerly Winston's, formerly Stein's, Miata-Based Locost Build.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: January 5, 2009, 9:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: September 30, 2005, 1:28 am
Posts: 1261
Location: Sunny-Okanagan, Canada, eh?!
A skinned Caterham frame is $11,000.

http://www.rmsci.com/catalog.html

_________________
The Lethal Locost
The Lethal Locost 2 - Even More Lethalerer


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: January 5, 2009, 10:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: November 1, 2007, 10:29 am
Posts: 143
Location: Central Coast Cal.
SkinnyG, so that's 11k plus shipping, ouch. What is the construction and weight comparison?
KB58 The forum members are excellent on the sharing of improvements to the book chassis and allowing newbie's to follow along with their projects. Learning much more than the books provided.
When I was at Buttonwillow Raceway it was just Caterham's out with the NASA group and I was wondering why no one else was out.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: January 5, 2009, 10:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: September 18, 2006, 8:51 pm
Posts: 406
Location: Longmont, Co.
Try googling "My Caterham" I think that site has really good pictures of the Caterham chassis.
Caterham, by the way, bronze welds their chassis using a machine controlled gas welding process. 8)

Wayne


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: January 5, 2009, 10:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 15, 2006, 11:15 am
Posts: 904
I don't have a side to side comparison pictures, but there were a few comparisons on the Locostbuilders.co.uk forum, I would suggest doing a search and you'll get a few result.

As for material, they are about the same 1*1 square tubing, but the caterham/Lotus use a round tubing as well. I know that some later Caterhams have an aluminum honeycomb floor.

A locost frame is easier to built then a Caterham frame, so it's just normal that the frame will be cheaper, and actually a complete locost frame is more like 3000-3500 and there not even skinned. Look at ebay frames, they're not complete... You still need to finish the transmission tunnel, add the supension brackets, transmission mounts, motor mounts, clean it, paint it, and put on the aluminium...

In the end the Locost, the Haynes and the caterham are 3 different looking cars with different specs and a different target market. You need to decide what is it you really want, and for what purpose. Also ask your self what kind of a build do you want, from designing every single bracket to just bolting the pieces together. Thats probably the biggest part of your due dilligence... and your right the members here will share their knowledge in improving the design.

Cheers,

Fred


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: January 5, 2009, 11:07 pm 
Offline
The voice of reason
User avatar

Joined: January 10, 2008, 4:47 pm
Posts: 7634
Location: Massachusetts
You can download a Caterham frame example from the Google Sketchup site. One notable thing about it is that the driveshaft tunnel is better tied into the rest of the frame at the front and rear. Also the rear frame around the differential is a lot more complex.

_________________
Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: January 6, 2009, 12:35 am 
Offline

Joined: August 6, 2008, 9:40 am
Posts: 532
Location: Greenville/Charlotte NC
Complicated doesn't even begin to describe the rear end:

Image

For a big pic, http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Caterham7spaceframe-rear.jpg

_________________
+442E, SR20det, Thunderbird/Markviii IRS with clutch lsd, R1 suspension all around, Mustang II 2" drop spindles, Woodward steering rack


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: January 6, 2009, 12:41 am 
Offline

Joined: August 6, 2008, 9:40 am
Posts: 532
Location: Greenville/Charlotte NC
Complicated doesn't even begin to describe the rear end:

Image

For a big pic, http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Caterham7spaceframe-rear.jpg

_________________
+442E, SR20det, Thunderbird/Markviii IRS with clutch lsd, R1 suspension all around, Mustang II 2" drop spindles, Woodward steering rack


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: January 6, 2009, 1:02 am 
Offline

Joined: November 1, 2007, 10:29 am
Posts: 143
Location: Central Coast Cal.
elewayne - thanks for the mycaterhaml.com site, great information. I find the British sense of humor so enjoyable - but what do they think of yanks?

killerdoodle- that's what i was looking for but now am afraid to see more


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: January 6, 2009, 3:08 am 
Offline
Weight watcher
User avatar

Joined: March 7, 2006, 6:15 pm
Posts: 2394
Location: Northridge, CA
Here's a pic of the front half of that same car -

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... -front.jpg

Note that this is a specific model, the Caterham CSR.
IIRC it is the only Caterham that has double wishbone suspension in the back and the only one with inboard shocks in the front.

Moti

_________________
Moti

My R1 powered Locost build log

Visit the Blackbird Fabworx Facebook Page!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Catherham Vs Locost
PostPosted: January 6, 2009, 8:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: September 22, 2005, 8:12 am
Posts: 1622
Location: 4AGE in S.E. Michigan
I believe that the new Caterham frames are now robotically MIG welded and that all the tubes are laser cut, within a .1mm including all the fishmouths. The Caterham is one of the very few clubman frames that has a creditable FEA analysis performed on it, which resulted in a design that has three different size tubes and 5 different gages. Most locost builders probably did not even buy two different size gages of tubes. I'm sure we could design an improved frame with the added diagonals, but we would be hard press to match the efficiency [ torsional/wt.]

As stated above the $1000 Locost frames are only a 1/3 completed, it's not very time consuming to cut off straight tubes and welded them together, the real task is making all the brackets and other attachment hardware then correctly fixturing them. I would bet a lot of the builders that purchase a frame, find that out the hard way.

Most builders will tell you a full frame takes some time, Dave W


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Catherham Vs Locost
PostPosted: January 6, 2009, 10:19 am 
Offline
Mid-Engined Maniac

Joined: April 23, 2006, 8:26 pm
Posts: 5980
Location: SoCal
davew wrote:
...it's not very time consuming to cut off straight tubes and weld them together, the real task is making all the brackets and other attachment hardware then correctly fixturing them. I would bet a lot of the builders that purchase a frame, find that out the hard way.

Very true! :?

_________________
Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://www.midlana.com/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains, http://www.kimini.com/book_info/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: January 6, 2009, 1:27 pm 
Offline
Weight watcher
User avatar

Joined: March 7, 2006, 6:15 pm
Posts: 2394
Location: Northridge, CA
Davew nailed it.

Moti

_________________
Moti

My R1 powered Locost build log

Visit the Blackbird Fabworx Facebook Page!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
POWERED_BY