LocostUSA.com

So I'm planning out my build. The car will be used for autoX and some track days. Hopefully get to cruise it around town as well. So maybe 50/50 on track/street.

I just swapped a chevy 6.0 LQ4 into my Jeep Grand Wagoneer and love it. I already know how to do all the wiring and all the little hurdles to swap one in. I really want a NA engine for track. Turbos can be tricky when the come on. I drove a WRX on e85 that made 300whp and had to slow down the spool to keep it from snapping a 100ftlb of torque over 2-300 rpms. Having a relatively flat torque curve would help. I like the idea of the 4.8l, but they only came as Iron blocks. The L33 was an aluminum 5.3, and would work well. If i could get away with a t5 behind it that would be great, or I could attempt to take the whole vette rear suspension/t56/diff/torque tube and "slap" it in there. Might get good leg room?
Weight 460 ish + tranny

I have a free set of ej20g heads that a friend gave me. I know subie engines pretty well. I could use a 5 speed plugged for only rwd. I would probably use a 2.2 or 2.5 block. Suprsingly, these engines are much more expensive! For what I would pay for a complete v8 would get me a block. Also, packaging would be "different". I might like the heads out the side look. Would probably need to redesign that part of the frame considerably. Weight should be lower and pushed further back that the chevy. I do have a bunch of subie parts and turbo sitting in storage. But, I really wanted to stay away from turbos on a track car.

Plan is a 442 frame with integrated roll cage. IRS
Donor would be some impreza/wrx for the subie setup, for the chevy I have no idea....hope someone crashes a vette in ABQ! That's expensive.

Anyways, would would be your experienced opinions?

For the life of me I can't understand anyone in the US of Americaland choosing a high-strung, difficult to drive, unreliable and hugely expensive to repair buzzbox over the range of cheap, available and totally proven V6's and V8's you have.

Ditto Cheapracer.

I really like the Subie, but if you have just recently done the V8 swap and are familiar with it then go with what you know.

In theory I like the Subie car better for weight and more of the "proper" torque band, but go with what's easiest for you.

So if I go with the L33/Lsx, I have to have beefier rear-end. I think something similar to Phil's setup. The subie would not require such beefy stuff, and I could get a subie donor car for almost everything.

It's all a cost/weight analysis.

Any more suggestions?

(I do want the v8 more!)

You can take a look thru my thread. I drew Sketchup models for a Ford Duratec and V8. There is a Subaru rear end and a Ford IRS. I also did a couple of drawings of a Subaru middy. If your going to use the Subaru engine, it's better suited for that.

What kind of tracks are you interested in? The four cylinder will likely be quicker but the V8 faster. So big straights will favor the V8. In the corners you will be carrying an extra 300+ lbs. with the V8, so more traction problems.

You can look in my thread for the work I did to make a strong frame with built in roll cage. I would not focus on large or overly powerful V8, especially to start. I also think you would do fine with a T5. There just won't be much weight on the rear tires. I think I put the math in my thread for how much torque load the rear tires can put on the motor. In the lower gears it was only 100-200 ft.-lbs. so if the motor does more then that it will spin the tires. A strong V8 can probably do that in fourth gear.

http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=12980

One thing, I can't remember if you've said, have you actually driven any sort of Locost?

The reason I ask is that many people come into the build projecting the power needs based upon their experience with HEAVY (by comparison) cars like a V8 powered Mustang II.

I'm not trying to talk you out of it since you are more likely to complete a build if you are familiar with the parts.

The reason I said I'd prefer the appropriate torque band of the Subie motor is that I'm not the smoothest driver and when my foot has a mind of it's own and decides to over react the torque of the V8 immediately makes me look like an idiot whereas the lower torque levels of the 4 cylinder masks my ineptness.

Even with the smaller motor you'll have a power to weight ratio in excess of a high powered Vette or Viper.

A couple of hundred horsepower in a car this small and light can be downright scary. Locost generally are about quickness rather than just being fast.

Before you make up your mind find someone to ride along with it might help you make up your mind.

youre absolutely correct. never driven a locost. decided to build one after seeing a stalker at our autox in ft myers florida. never got to ride in it. now I live in albuquerque.....not sure if there is anyone here.

I've driven heavy can cars like a wrx and mustang, but also a turbo miata and a lambo gallardo. my e30 was a decent handling vehicle....with no power.

the subie engine would be low pressure turbo. I hated getting into boost in the middle of a slalom. but it is lighter.

good thread by the way. I'm jealous of your cad ability

None of those cars compare to the Locost in any way except they are all cars.

Before you do anything you need to find one to ride in or better yet, drive one. There's no way you can make a good decision without trying one out.

It's not for everyone.

Driving one really opens one's eyes as to what power to weight really means.

I just about peed in my pants the first one I drove. The curbs seemed so high the car was so quick that I was afraid I'd be half a step behind the car in my reactions.

Sitting next to a pick up truck at a light made me wonder if he could see me.

On the track most of that went away because I was there for a particular purpose. I never felt I reached the capacities of the car. I grinned so much my face hurt.

Not sure how you figure that as it's relative to the torque applied trying to move 'X' weight 'Y' distance. Your diff doesn't care if it's a Subaru or a V8 offering it 300ftlbs, it's still 300ftlbs.

V8's have heavier rear ends because they are generally in heavier cars, if they were in lighter cars they would have lighter rear ends - really is that simple.

In a Locost you will get away with a much lighter rear end than a heavier car while applying the same torque.

Me? The stuff I did is simple, the good looking components of my model come from other folks that have made contributions. Just making tubes and arranging them can be a bit frustrating but not really hard. Grab that stuff and make it into what you want. If you can even contribute one little part to the SketchUp library we have then it's progress for everyone. Plus it will be there forever...

In one sense I'm at the same place you are with some choices right now. Choosing rear end parts. I have drawings for Ford IRS stuff and also Subaru. It's looking like the Ford Thunderbird style IRS uprights won't fit inside a 13" rim. That's too bad because 13" racing slicks are pretty cheap and probably the best match for these cars in terms of expected weight and rubber softness etc.

To break things you need to look at engine torque at one end and then tire torque at the other end. One can't really be bigger then the other, outside of inertia. The other issue would be spinning one rear wheel severely and over working the insides of your diff. Let's assume hard use, but not abuse.

I'm aiming for under 1700 lbs. with a small V8 and a driver and more then %50 rear weight bias. That would come to 500 lbs. per rear tire. You can use numbers from 1.0 to 1.5 for coefficient of friction for tires, from street tires to racing slicks. I am a little unsure of the those numbers, but it's a neighborhood. If you had 24" diameter tires, 12" radius, you could get between 500 ft.-lbs. to 750 ft.-lbs. of torque from either wheel.

So you need halfshafts and wheel studs etc. that can take that much. A street Subaru weighs more though so it would be able to generate something near twice as much stress on those parts. Working thru the problem the other way you multiply the engine torque thru the 1st gear reduction and then the differential reduction. In round numbers that would multiply the engine torque by about 10. So you know the street Subaru can generate that amount of torque on the halfshafts etc. in first gear.

I'd like to know if the stronger Subaru turbo models use heavier duty rear end parts, do any use the R-180 diff or bigger halfshafts? What years and models so I can try to find out more about the parts?

the sti had the r180....just usually expensive

so I found out that albuquerque has an insurance auto auction.....that regular old people can sign up for. just have to join the group.

saw an rx8...might not be bad if I could get it cheap. but going to keep an eye out for a c5 vette. got a couple months to decide...


anyone in new mexico with a locost that wants to give me a ride?

Found a 89 legacy turbo in the junkyard. This shold have a phase 1 ej22t. Also found a 6.0L lq4, but it has the iron heads....booo.

Got me thinking more about the subie power plant. the ej22 is supposed to be super strong. Just gotta find a good tranny.

edit: looks like there's a guy named bill hincher in toledo that makes adapter bellhousings for ej motors to toyota w trannies. That would work well.

I've been planning on using a lola mk1 body so i can widen up a bit to fit the heads if needed.

FAIL
not an ej22t....back to the v8 idea for now.
Found a 6L in the junkyard, but they wanted 800 for it. bit too much (price and torque)

Go for a V6, you've seen a go Stalker yourself.

Find a Stalker owner near you and go for a ride for convincing proof about the engine and the overall vehicle concept.