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PostPosted: September 4, 2017, 12:00 am 
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Don't really have any advice here, but on my car I installed a trailer tail light in the center of the steering wheel. It was connected to an adjustable oil pressure switch. I set the switch so it would light when the engine was idling with hot oil. It took at least a lap or two at speed to get the oil hot enough for that. So I wouldn't see the light until after the warm up lap and sitting on the grid for a little while. I never saw it during a race but I do think I would have noticed it.

Something that can cause oil starvation is if your engine pumps too much oil up into the valve covers. That would point to making sure it can drain well and maybe adding some capacity to your oil pan. Those things are easier than a dry sump. Have you done anything to modify your pump for more flow or pressure? Do you use thin enough oil? Maybe your oil is not hot enough when you start a run? Then the oil would be flowing slowly back down to the pan. This could happen because your events happen so quickly, oil warms up much lower than coolant. My FF will have high pressure until it's run a warm up lap or two and that's maybe 4 miles and 2 or 3 minutes at redline and full power.

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PostPosted: September 4, 2017, 7:12 am 
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The ECU is set to idle @1200rpm until the engine comes up to temp and then it drops to 800rpm. I am aware that is coolant temp rather than oil but it is a good indicator. I always start the car in the mornings until it is fully warmed up and take it for a short drive around paddock as a mini shake down to make sure everything feels good. I also give it plenty of time to warm up between runs.

The oil thought is interesting I was previously using Brad Penn 20W50. However after the Grassroots video I was contacted my a rep at Valvoline who gave me 10 gallons of oil. I've been using their 10W40 Race oil. I may try going back to the Brad Penn. )I'm glad I checked that oil actually as one of them is break in oil. I thought they were both 10w40).

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PostPosted: September 4, 2017, 2:24 pm 
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When it is time to start the engine. Use an external oil pump through the oil gallery hole in block to push oil through entire engine for a few minutes to pre-oil everything before ignition and any engine rotation. The highest quality bearing assembly lube on ALL rotating surfaces is recommended.
Use a quality 5W-20 or 30 conventional dinosaur break- in oil. After 1 or 2 events when broken in, then racing oil. My Lucas oil supplement with high ZDDP and the Mobil 1 Racing oil has worked well for me. Good luck. See you in a few days.


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PostPosted: September 4, 2017, 10:40 pm 
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I was previously using Brad Penn 20W50.


I think this is an issue. I'm not a wizz on your kind of engine, but that sounds too thick. It's set by what your bearing clearances are and how round they are. The bearing clearances are affected by temperature too. Thing is people have been going to thinner oils and better clearances for a long time now. I think Honda would have been out front on this.

I used to run an oil temp gauge on my FF and it took a lot longer to warm the oil than the coolent. It was dry sump though so maybe that takes longer. With oil that thick it could cavitate the pump if you rev it before the oil thins down. I remember my friend with the dyno remarking to me one day he'd ruined the engine on his Subaru by running 20W50 in it and that was 30 years ago.

I don't know what you would need to do to install an oil temp gauge. But maybe modifying your pan for more oil and a gauge would be money well spent. If you have an oil cooler you could plumb in a temp gauge there. If you ran an oil cooler that uses engine coolant, that would help warm your oil. They used to sell those for turbo cars and they fit under your oil filter - maybe that would work too.

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PostPosted: September 4, 2017, 11:25 pm 
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Good point - no way autocrossing gets the oil up to operating temperature. Look at the video I posted a few threads ago of the Sprite. That engine was warmed up prior to hitting the false grid. Even after the formation lap, the oil was only up to 150. It took another two laps of racing (about 5 minutes) to get it up to temp. Unless you do back to back to back to back to back autocross runs, it'll have sufficient time to cool down.

I like the coolant to oil heat exchanger most sport bikes use. When the oil is warmer than the coolant it acts as an oil cooler but when the oil is colder than the coolant it helps warm the oil.

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PostPosted: September 5, 2017, 7:26 am 
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The S2000 has a heat exchanger for Oil/coolant. It is a little donut that sits between the oil filter and the block.

So what weight do you think I run for oil. Maybe 5W30 or go to 0W20? I will do some research and I have also asked on the facebook S2000 track page.

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PostPosted: September 5, 2017, 11:18 am 
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The S2000 has a heat exchanger for Oil/coolant.


That's good, it should be a help. When the engine is cold and idling most of the pumped oil will be bypassed by the pressure regulator. You have nice oil, but it might take a second or two to come up to pressure. During that time there would be enough oil left on the bearings to work. If it was a daily driver it would shorten life a bit, but not what you are seeing. The bypass oil probably doesn't go thru the heat exchanger though, so it will still warm the oil slowly. Living in Florida is a big help here.

My FF and the V8 pushrod engines were all designed on slide rules and built by barely post WWII equipment. The S2000 would be far more accurately made and maybe had the benefit of computer modeling.

I think you mentioned better sources than me for finding out your oil weight. Even the owner's manual should help here, it might mention heavier oil for summer use for example. I'm a little surprised your oil rep didn't comment on this or venture an opinion...

If you want solid engine info, I go to the forums on SpeedTalk. I just did a search for "Speedtalk oil weight" and came up with some good info like what I am saying. Probably because I read it there :-). http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=33618. Also check "SpeedTalk oil pressure".

There's a log of good info on the Joe Gibbs oil web site. From what I can tell and all the info they are willing to put out - they make good stuff.

They are very specific on the SpeedTalk forum like the guy asking the above question " used to run .035 clearance, but now I am running .025". Many of the people posting there are actually camshaft designers, cylinder head designers and people with dyno budgets in millions of dollars a year. Some of them actually did write the book on this stuff. Nobody is bragging on these things so it takes a while to figure out who is who.

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PostPosted: September 5, 2017, 10:02 pm 
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wrightcomputing wrote:
The S2000 has a heat exchanger for Oil/coolant. It is a little donut that sits between the oil filter and the block.

So what weight do you think I run for oil. Maybe 5W30 or go to 0W20? I will do some research and I have also asked on the facebook S2000 track page.


In oil weights, the first number is the viscosity cold, the second is at 100C. So (assuming your bearings are OE clearances) you probably want to run whatever the OE first number is (10w?) and worry about the second one. For that I would suggest running the thinnest oil you can, while retaining OE oil pressure specs in the conditions you will be operating in. Meaning if your spec is 40psi @ 2000rpm at operating temp, and your operating temp is higher than OE (due to Florida and racing), you still want it at 40psi. Typically they will provide two specs, one at idle and one at 2000rpm or so.

Thinner oil will return to pump faster, and transfer heat faster. Also, different engine oils can handle different temps before burning so if your oil temps are high you will need to use top tier oils.

Listen to what the trackday guys say, but keep in mind your oil temps are probably far less at autoX.

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PostPosted: September 5, 2017, 11:29 pm 
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I run 0-40 or 0-50 in my S2000 with no issues.

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PostPosted: September 9, 2017, 9:43 pm 
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This is a good thread since I am having similar issues with my B16 ( the k series is actually the newer version and the two engines are really similar except they spend in opposite directions)

From what I have read, the key is a professional trap door oil pan with a larger capacity and a ported oil pump. A lot of guys also over fill the system with oil just above the high mark on the dip stick. This company sells the pump.

http://www.4pistonracing.com/k20-k24-po ... s-oil-pump

They also sell a dry sump kit

http://www.4pistonracing.com/dailey-eng ... s-dry-sump

Just dont look at their $11k 500hp N/A k24's. : )

I have had multiple failures with different oil types the most current being Lukas 30w break in oil. However I have never had oiling issues at the head

I am personally going to try the following:

Canton large capacity trap door oil pan
Ported oil pump
Oil pressure sensor that I can datalog in hondata with an adjustable dummy light (I might actually be able to rig the theft prevention function to the oil pressure switch so that the car won't start until a set pressure is achieved)
Oil temp sensor
Add an accelerometer so data log against oil pressure

The data mat make me go to a dry sump but I will see what happens first.

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PostPosted: September 9, 2017, 11:27 pm 
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I've never needed one, but how about an accumulator? Accusump or similar. Seems ideal for autoX. Also works as a pre-oiler (not that it matters on a car that gets thrashed on).

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PostPosted: September 11, 2017, 11:37 am 
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I run 0-40 or 0-50 in my S2000 with no issues.


For competition use try to find an oil with less spread on the numbers. You must have the right oil for the temperature you run at while hot. Up until then your oil temperature gauge lets you know to wait longer before using real power and RPMs.

The spread in numbers is achieved by adding plastic to the oil, but then you have less oil in your oil. This is why they make straight weight competition oils. I think using a multi-weight oil is fine, but 0-50 is kind of extreme. The multi-weight oil will do a better job during start up. This is less important in Texas or Florida, here in New England at the beginning or end of the season we may have some frost on the ground in the early morning so the day's first startup the engine is actually cold.

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PostPosted: September 13, 2017, 12:20 am 
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This is a friend of mine who has worked on S2000 engines from the time they were new. He may be able to give you some good advice or you can just bounce some ideas off him. His name is Todd, tell him David Bennett sent you. I cut and pasted this from the S2000 forum where he announced he'd moved his shop.

Marcucci Motorsports
2420 Gravel Dr
Fort Worth, TX 76118

Near 121/183 and 820, it's a much shorter drive than before and easy to get to. For those that don't know us, we've been working on S2000's since they were new. We specialize in Hondas & Acuras. We're equipped for everything from basic maintenance to full engine builds.

Among S2000-specific service, we regularly do AP2 retainer swaps, oil jet bolt updates, convertible top replacements, subframe collar installs, and repair of seized subframe bolts. We also are one of the few shops that can properly do ring & pinion (new final drive) gear setup and manual transmission repair. If you have a spun rob bearing or other internal motor issue, we also are equipped to do most diagnostics on-vehicle (including leakdown, bore scoping, and main or crank bearing inspection). We also partner with experienced machine shops that can bore and hone the F2xC FRM cylinder walls to Honda OE specifications.

There are plenty of long time customers on the forums here that will vouch for us.

Check out the new web site- we have lots of projects and a few blog posts up, with more coming.

http://www.marcuccimotorsports.com

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PostPosted: September 14, 2017, 7:03 am 
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Can your ECU record oil pressure? Sounds like you really need this information.

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