LocostUSA.com

Hey guys,

I am trying to decide on an engine to use for my Locost and was hoping to get your suggestions and thoughts on the 4 engines I have been considering.

Goals:
250whp on 91 pump gas
Reliable
Easily replaceable parts
Low miles
Light weight
Stock bottom end, mostly stock head (adding cams is okay)

The first engine I'm looking at is the Ecoboost 2.0. Stock and a tune it makes the power I'm looking for. The engines are in many many fords so finding a low mile long block is easy. Under $1500 for longblocks (Car-parts.com) Ford makes a wiring harness and ecu for swaps getting rid of all the excess wires and sensors.
Cost for Ecoboost est.
Ecoboost 1500
Wiring 1700
OilPan intake 299
Clutch&Flywheel 564
Total $4063

The next engine I'm looking at is the Mazda 2.5 MZR in NA form with ITB's because well I think ITB's are cool. I have never had a high HP NA engine before with ITB's. This is the least proven path. I don't know of any 2.5 engine making this type of power without going to high CR. It would simplify things in the engine not to have an intercooler.

Cost for 2.5 MZR engine
2.5 MZR Engine 500
ITB's 916
Cams 1250
Wet Sump 460
Standalone 1200
Clutch and Flywheel 564
Total 4890

The last two engines are the most accepted ones, you know Honda's. Finding a low mile F20C or K24a2 is getting harder and hard to find. They also cost the most. Which is a concern for a locost. Most of the cost below for the k24 are from Kmiata. This wouldn't even get me to 250whp for sure, below is just the starting point to build on. I'd still need cams, and maybe more.

Cost for a 2.4 K24a2 engine
K24a2 Engine 1200
Engine Adapter 500
Flywheel 750
Clutch 400
Hondata (SA) 700
K Swap Package 670
Intake & TB 708
Oil Pump Type S 280
Total 5208

The last engine is a F20C, the issue for me is this engine is expensive and hard to find with under 100,000 miles. That's a pretty high miles engine, and most people that buy the s2000 are beating on them. Even with a header, exhaust, cams it doesn't look like the F20c can hit 250whp on 91. It looks more like 220whp from the dyno's I have seen.

Cost for the F20C
F20C Engine 3000
Cams 760
AEM Standalone 1000
Ballade Sports 69mm bore Intake 350
Supertech Ti Retainers 195
Big Bore TB 100
Ballade Sports Spring kit 170
Total 5575


All the cost above or just estimates not counting a custom made header for the locost or tuning. So what is your thoughts? I'm leaning on the Ecoboost for the ease, how new it is, and the plug and play wiring. But a 2.5 MRZ engine with ITB's is really intriguing to me as well.

F22C, AEM EMS, light pulleys, 8lb flywheel, clean injectors and new plugs, Hondata intake manifold spacer/insulator, 3K rpm VTec, everything else bone stock cost me $2000 with the transmission. About 40,000 miles on the engine and trans.

I would not hold too much importance in getting 250WHP. My car will spin my 15" racing slicks all day. It is way more power then any street tire can handle.

_________________
2015 & 2016 EMod Florida State Autocross Champion
2013 & 2014 DSP Florida State Autocross Champion

Scrap Metal Build Log viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14558

Hi Wrightcomputing, that dyno graph is pretty much exactly what I am looking for. Thanks for sharing.
How did you find a F22C engine with transmission for $2000 and only 40,000 miles? I'd buy that right now if I knew where one was.

Anything you don't like about the engine?

It was just a local guy who was planning to put it in a Civic and changed his mind. I spoke to my buddy who tunes engines and he said his friend had one for sale. I bought it the next day.

You cannot find them that price anymore (that was 4 years ago). I am currently looking for an F20C and keep checking craigslist, I am hoping to get one for about $2000 that is under 100,000miles.

I love the motor the power is just amazing. I think it makes more power in the Locost then it would in an S2000 due to lighter drivetrain short exhaust etc.

_________________
2015 & 2016 EMod Florida State Autocross Champion
2013 & 2014 DSP Florida State Autocross Champion

Scrap Metal Build Log viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14558

Just my thoughts on the K24A2. I got 218 rwbhp out of mine, but 235 is more the norm, I think my exhaust is the problem. I paid $1200 for mine with 70k miles. The engine adapter is a must. But I think you could move the starter to the other side of the adapter, then use a spacer and a standard flywheel, it would take a little effort but it would save money and you would end up with a lighter flywheel. It turn out using the S2000 inlet manifold is a bust. They use that because in the Miata the rear of the cylinder head is up against the firewall, so they need a manifold that faces forward. But in a Locost that is not true there is a ton of room behind the engine. When I opened my hood the dyno guy said "why did you do that", because I did not know any different. The Civic RBC manifold is cheaper ($217 new), does not need an adapter (saves you $299) and flows better. I added bonus is there is room for a cold air setup behind the engine. I have also heard about a Accord ECU that can now be flashed to work, a huge savings over the Hondata setup.

I will be swapping to the RBC manifold over the winter.

Graham

I have heard great things about the K-Motors they have the I-Vtec. I can't remember exactly what it does but there it more adjustment like the VTec. The K24A2 while it comes with less power can can be tuned to produce a lot more.

_________________
2015 & 2016 EMod Florida State Autocross Champion
2013 & 2014 DSP Florida State Autocross Champion

Scrap Metal Build Log viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14558

The i_Vtec has adjustable cam timing as well as lift. Great motor, very flat torque curve easy to drive. Lots of parts available and the tuning guys can get crazy power 350bhp NA is not uncommon. Honda parts are surprisingly cheap, the engine and power harnesses are $125 each, so just use new harnesses it's so much nicer. The cover for the clutch is $17, I very complex Vtec gasket that is like a figure 8 shape that is squared off, one hole has a SS mesh screen, so it's a complex gasket is $12.

Graham

So I have made some progress.

I found a F22c engine and transmission for sale and at a good price. This engine is currently my plan A.

Also I found that MS Labs is making a MegaSquirt for the F20C engine and in the future the MZR engines.

The MZR 2.5 engine with ITB's and MegaSquirt might be a really good engine combo in the future.

The EcoBoost still seems like a pretty good option, except I am worried that the weak-point will be the NC 6 Speed transmission.
Ecoboost locost build below
http://forum.wscc.co.uk/forum/index.php ... 250-build/

If performance is more imprtant than money then KMod have lots of great options for built engines.
https://kmodperformance.myshopify.com/c ... longblocks

_________________
2015 & 2016 EMod Florida State Autocross Champion
2013 & 2014 DSP Florida State Autocross Champion

Scrap Metal Build Log viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14558

Consider the Ecotec?

With boost they reliably make the power you want, and the torque curve is solid. No heavier than the other options you listed.

Cheers.

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Build log: viewtopic.php?t=9291

I know its not one of the four you have been considering, so I apologize for the hijack, but its seems a Ford 5.0 meets all your criteria and exceeds the majority of the engines listed. Maybe it has to be a four for track events or something, but the 302 easily makes more than 250 hp with some basic mods, is extremely reliable, you'll be able to find parts for it across the country at any auto shop, and likely for cheaper than the four listed, most parts are easy to replace, its light (about 50 lb less than the Ecoboost 2.0 for example), and should easily put out 300 hp with the stock bottom end. Another major plus, is you can get a motor, wiring, ECU, etc. for about $800.00, a heck of a lot less than the cheapest of the four at $4,063.00. Also, they fit pretty good and are generally an easier fit than a turbo four. Basically, picking on the EcoBoost 2L for example, the 302 will basically beat it in every category, price, power, weight, size, parts availability, price of parts, easy to work on, etc.

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Trochu Motor League

Hi Trochu,

The Ecoboost weights in at 328 lbs(149 kg) or less if you believe the ford performance website. They say "The weight of the engine is approximately 300 lbs." I don't know the weight of the 302 but I'm guessing it's more than that. One exhaust exciting to the passenger side was a requirement for my build. I'd like to keep what is left of my hearing. Passengers well have to suffer. The ecoboost engine is a modern engine, the 302 is a gem (no argument from me on that point) but a engine but it from last century. Thank you for the suggestion but for my build I am not going to swap in an engine that old.

The Ecotec wasn't consider because the exhaust exits from the left. I'm only considering engines that exit from the right.

wrightcomputing "man I wish I had that kind of money for a KMod built engine. It just out of my price right now."

Thank you for the suggestions I do appreciate them.

Trackslut you're being reasonable and I apologize for belaboring here, but I want to suggest that the cylinder head and camshaft design for a 302 is more modern than the other choices you are giving. Not the original stuff, but what you bolt on these days. I think the most valuable thing for us is that the 302 is your smallest choice.

So far as the Ecoboost, honestly the non-turbo version (Duratec?) should be considered. It's very light, I weighted one for the engine weight thread and I think it was 200 lbs. You can get a very nice integrated dry sump for it which has no external components. That's really nice.

With the Ecotec, perhaps you could just run the exhaust around the front of the motor. A couple more 90 bends will help quiet it down.

You can always put the turbo stuff on later, but before that you will have a working package to run and debug / enjoy your car.

With a Duratec I think you'll be able to swap ends up to at least 60 MPH even with slicks on the car.

_________________
Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
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The Duratec exhaust exits on the right, as you are looking for. They are quite light - 210-230 lbs or so, depending on how much stuff is connected at weigh-in. FSWerks claims their turbo kit makes 240-280 hp., on a bone-stock Duratec 2.3, with no engine modifications whatsoever. Might be the engine you're seeking?

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Scratch building, at continental-drift speed, a custom McSoreley-design framed, dual-Weber 45DCOE carburated, Zetec-engined, ridiculously fast money pit.

http://zetec7.webs.com/

I'll do some research on FSWerks claims, thanks for the suggestion.

The duratec has the exhaust on the right side just like what I am looking for. The Duratec is Fords version of the MRZ engine I was talking about in the first post. The Duratec 2.3 is a good engine but the 2.5 is cheaper to buy used and all the cool Duratec aftermarket stuff bolts on. If I was going to go this path I would try to stay NA to simplify things. It might be possible to do a 2.5 MZR engine with cams, ITB and standalone and hit that 250whp (might be). The link below is a MRZ engine with just headers tune and exhaust making 200whp. Pretty impressive.
http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda-Pe ... -1506.html

It doesn't make sense to me to turbo the NA 2.3 Duratec. Ford did this for us, it's the ecoboost engines. The 2.0 ecoboost engine is the next generation Duratec turbo'ed for more hp. If I go the turbo path the 2.0 ecoboost engine just seems like the most logical path (although I could be wrong)

I also found a F22 engine trans, wiring, ecu for $1500 that needs a rebuild. Sounds tempting, I need to do some research to find out how much a rebuild of a s2000 would cost.

I'll be at SEMA next week talking to all the companies, after that I'm going to pull the trigger on an engine.