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PostPosted: June 8, 2018, 12:01 am 
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A while back it was not very hard to buy a WC-T5 from a V8 Camaro.
I wanted to get another but they are now hard to find, or expensive.

Need a trans to go behind a warmed up 225 Buick V6 powered future build.
I've read that the Miata trans is actually from a larger car so overbuilt for the Miata.
I have an extra and they are still pretty cheap if I need another.
Would it live a reasonably long time behind the Buick V6 in a light car?
Spirited driving but no drag race action.

Tried searching the forum but no luck with that.

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PostPosted: June 8, 2018, 1:15 am 
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It should pretty reliably hold 250 ft-lb in a Miata. I suspect that it should be fine for your application. I don't know what your thoughts were for adapting it, but also note that it has an integral blousing.

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PostPosted: June 8, 2018, 2:31 am 
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I have a CNC mill and some CAD skills.
Will try to check on the comparative flywheel diameters in the morning.
Suspect I may have to adapt a Miata flywheel to the Buick and use the Miata starter.
If that seems like it will be do-able a trans adapter plate should not be too hard.

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PostPosted: June 8, 2018, 6:18 am 
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I agree it probably would be okay. A much stronger, more common, and likely cheaper mazda trans is the M50D-R1HD used in 2001 and newer ford rangers equipped with the 4.0L v6. The bell is integral and I expect the starter mounts to it, so I would use a lightened ranger flywheel, clutch, pp, hydraulic release bearing, and starter. Fit an aluminum block adapter as thin as practical (maybe 1.5 inch thick at most/worst case with overlapping fastener holes), then made the steel crank adapter as thick as necessary, picking up the pilot bearing if it doesn't go into the flywheel. I have one for my bronco 2 that I have not installed yet if you'd like measurements. I think I paid $100 for it off craigs.

Might also look at the kia sportage trans.

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_li ... ssion.html

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PostPosted: June 8, 2018, 10:39 am 
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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
...and I expect the starter mounts to it...
I'm pretty sure the starter is still block-mounted, just like on the regular M5OD-R1. In fact, other than different gear ratios and rumors of potentially stronger synchros, I have yet to find any reliable information indicating that the 'HD' version is in fact any appreciable amount stronger than the standard M5OD-R1, which are far more common and even cheaper yet. However, while stronger than a Miata 5 speed, they are also physically quite a bit larger and have a top mount shifter rather than a tail mount shifter...Which may or may not matter for the installation. The M5OD-R1 (and HD) may also not be much, or any, stronger than a Miata 6 speed, as I have my suspicions about there being a relationship* between the them.

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PostPosted: June 8, 2018, 6:19 pm 
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I won't speak for all M50D but the 4.0 ranger starters bolt to the bell, not the block. Most push rod fords that I have been exposed to bolt to the bell. The bolts running parallel to the starter motor housing is a give away, just like a 5.0 ford.

The distance between shafts is one of the best indicators of transmission torque capacity. The miata 6 speed is an Aisin AZ6 with a 70mm distance between shafts. I found where somone measured their M50D and found it has 85mm between shafts, but I can measure the one I have to verify that. It is no doubt heavier, larger, and less efficient as a result of that extra capacity but I prefer the deep overdrive gearing for a pushrod v8, though the spread of the aisin would be better for racing.

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PostPosted: June 8, 2018, 11:02 pm 
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2000s V6 camaro/mustang use a never version of the T5 rated to 300ft/lbs if it helps. Still common enough to find.

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PostPosted: June 8, 2018, 11:49 pm 
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C10CoryM wrote:
2000s V6 camaro/mustang use a never version of the T5 rated to 300ft/lbs if it helps. Still common enough to find.


I need to look at gearing for some of these.
This illustrates the problem with late model drivetrains, they come available and then disappear so quickly!

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PostPosted: June 9, 2018, 12:01 am 
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And all the newer GM V6s use the Aisin transmission which is much smoother shifting. It's the same people that make the S2000 and Miata trans.

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PostPosted: June 9, 2018, 12:03 am 
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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
I won't speak for all M50D but the 4.0 ranger starters bolt to the bell, not the block. Most push rod fords that I have been exposed to bolt to the bell. The bolts running parallel to the starter motor housing is a give away, just like a 5.0 ford.

The distance between shafts is one of the best indicators of transmission torque capacity. The miata 6 speed is an Aisin AZ6 with a 70mm distance between shafts. I found where somone measured their M50D and found it has 85mm between shafts, but I can measure the one I have to verify that. It is no doubt heavier, larger, and less efficient as a result of that extra capacity but I prefer the deep overdrive gearing for a pushrod v8, though the spread of the aisin would be better for racing.
Well that settles that. Looks like I was mistaken on both accounts, with the exception of the Duratec Ranger version using a block mounted starter. :oops:

If you've got any info on what actually differentiate the HD from the standard M5OD-R1, aside from the ratios, you can complete the trifecta.

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PostPosted: June 9, 2018, 6:37 pm 
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I think the gears will likely be stronger since the teeth can be fewer and thicker due to the drop in ratio. The synchros are supposed to be more durable also.

For those that do not know, the HD has better ratios for first through third with a tighter spread. The ratios are close to the ford 5.0l T5 except for the .79 overdrive and the torque capacity is about the same as the WCT5.
R1: 3.72/2.20/1.50/1/0.79
R1HD: 3.40/2.05/1.31/1/0.79

http://www.f150hub.com/trans/m5od-r1.html

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PostPosted: June 10, 2018, 8:32 am 
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Driven5 wrote:
Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
If you've got any info on what actually differentiate the HD from the standard M5OD-R1, aside from the ratios, you can complete the trifecta.

As I recall, the difference is an additional and seemingly totally unnecessary, additional bolt hole in the bell housing mating surface.

It is my understanding that HD gears can be used in any M5R1 with no other changes. But a complete swap out is required. Definitely worth looking into if your looking for better ratios for your Duratec.

Bill


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PostPosted: June 12, 2018, 8:38 am 
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As for the original question. The first question is "how hard are you on transmissions"? Have you ever broken a trans, some people are very hard on transmissions some people are not. The Miata trans is OK, some turbo owners have problems, but more interesting to you is some of the Honda K Series swapped Miata cars are having problem, the torque on a K series is not high, but they rev like crazy. K-Miata have started offering BMW transmission swaps for owners that are having problems with the stock Miata trans. I think having such a light cars helps the trans, torque kills a trans. I run a K24A2 thru a Miata trans without any issues, but I am easy on transmissions. So you want to use a higher torque motor in a lighter car. If you have a history of being tough on transmissions I would say no it's now worth the risk.

Graham


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PostPosted: September 27, 2018, 7:42 am 
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Depends on how hard you thrash it. In racing we get about 12 months of work out of them and they start going bad. 12 months equals about 16 races of between 20 and 30 minutes each. If you catch it grinding soon enough it's a simple repair of a few synchro's. If you don't catch it soon they will grenade and sound like a rock crusher.
Street use is much easier on the tranny. Years ago I built a drivers ed track car from a Miata and added a turbo. I had around 250 hp at the rear wheels. I never had an issue with the tranny after 3 years of street and occasional track days.


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