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PostPosted: April 4, 2016, 12:28 pm 
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DaveH wrote:
So has anyone looked at the Ford 3.5/3.7 Cyclone family? From what I know they have a unique bellhousing that only bolts to the MT-82 transmission, but they're 265/305 hp out of the box and the 3.5s are dirt cheap because Ford put them in literally everything starting around 2007.

I keep being surprised that I can't find anything about these engines being used for swaps. There's a little bit on the Ranger forums, but not much else.


Everyone may already know following, but here it is (Wiki extracts):
AND would like to know about "305 hp 3.5s are dirt cheap"

--Duratec pattern
2.5L/3.0L/3.5L Duratec V6
3.4L DOHC SHO V8

"literally everything starting around 2007"

--Duratec 30 - 1996 replacement for the 3.8 L Essex engine in the Ford Taurus and Mercury Sable

--RFF - The Taurus/Sable/Escape version
205 hp (153 kW)
1996-2005 Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable
2001-2005 Ford Escape/Mercury Mariner/Mazda Tribute
2005-2007 Ford Five Hundred, Mercury Montego and Ford Freestyle

--VVT - 2006 Ford Fusion, Mercury Milan, and Lincoln Zephyr version Duratec 30 w/ variable valve timing
1st gen. - engine has an output of 221 bhp
2006-2009 Ford Fusion
2006-2009 Mercury Milan
2006 Lincoln Zephyr

2nd gen. - engine updated to run on E85. Engine has an output of 240 bhp
2010-2012 Ford Fusion
2010-2011 Mercury Milan
2009-2012 Ford Escape

2013 - replaced by the EcoBoost 2.0L I4, and Cyclone 35 V6. The original version of the engine without iVCT is available as a crate engine from Ford Power Products, producing 232 bhp

--Duratec 35
Fusion later received the Duratec 35 V6 as a top-tier "Sport" option
2008+ Taurus (local yard shows $800-$500 for grade A depending on miles, but Wiki shows this as 263hp version)

"unique bellhousing that only bolts to MT-82 transmission"
maybe there are some automatics that would also bolt up?
6R and 5R55S are also shown as Mustang transmissions, but I don't know mated to what engine(s)?
Guess I'd also like to hear about that "little bit on the Ranger forums" part from DaveH.


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PostPosted: April 5, 2016, 7:38 pm 
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Location: No. Nevada
Off Road SHO wrote:
Have you thought about the engine/transaxle from a Toyota Previa van? They are laid over somewhat.

Tom


Looked at those, laid over flat like BMW bike engine.
Looks like it puts most of the engine on one side of the crank centerline.
The remotely mounted supercharger is interesting though!

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PostPosted: October 16, 2016, 9:54 am 
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I'm probably going to repeat something i did once before, bolt a SBC V8 to a Nissan FS5W71C. Anyone wanna see a thread with pics on how to make it work?


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PostPosted: October 16, 2016, 10:55 am 
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Location: central Arkansas
Enlighten us!


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PostPosted: October 16, 2016, 12:51 pm 
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The w71c was used in the 240SX, the base 300ZX from '84-'88, and 4-cylinder pickups. It is safe to 350 TQ and 400 HP, pushing your luck and really babying it should add 50 to those numbers. So a mild 350 or a built 305 should be good.
It is stronger than the best T5s ever offered in Camaros, but still, clutch dumps, powershifts, and grinding gears will hurt it. It is more common than the stronger r30a, and thus cheaper, there are aftermarket shifters for it, the 300ZX Turbo clutch works, i forget if the later twin turbo clutch works, but it should. I think it does.
But that clutch wont work with a 168- tooth flexplate, so the LSx is out. There is a costly flywheel for Fiero LS4 swaps, that might make a non-turbo 4.8L LSx an option. For the traditional SBC there is a cheap iron flywheel that accepts clutches smaller than the 80s Camaro 10.4" disc, plus because of the Fiero and S-10 v8 swappers, there are aftermarket equivalents. Most of them use a 9.13" clutch, IIRC. That pressure plate with a 300ZX turbo disc should work.
I had an '85 300ZX when i first tried this, my first adapter plate was a sheet of 1/4" mild steel.
Good fabricators can figure out the rest from there, but when i get around to it, I'll show how to get it to move a car under its own power. I have a running 86 305 on hand.


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PostPosted: October 17, 2016, 8:22 am 
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Joined: August 1, 2016, 2:28 pm
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I have been looking around the forums and using the search function, but it doesn't seem like anybody considered the Cologne V6 from a 2005+ V6 'Stang

here is why i think it could be a contender:
-210 HP/240TQ at the crank
-spins to 6250 rpm in stock form
-comes in a natural package with a 5 speed manual transmission in the undesired trim of a recentish car (v8 fetches a premium, but not the v6)
-parts are cheap as it's been used to a multitude of ford cars (from wikipedia: 2001–2011 Ford Ranger, 2001–2010 Mazda B4000, 1997–2010 Ford Explorer/Mercury Mountaineer, 2005–2010 Ford Mustang)
-i can find a running donor for the price of a miata
-has a few minor issues but they are well documented

has the following measurements:

top of intake to bottom of oil pan: 28"
length without accessories: 19"
width from head to head : 20"

At first glance it appears it would fit without too much drama in a 442 frame, it is an inch taller than a 302 but slimmer in every other way. i'm sure some crafty builder could make that work. that's what i think i'll be building with once I will be ready to undertake the project.

Anybody else thinks this could be a good choice? any cons that i didn't think of?


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PostPosted: October 17, 2016, 12:29 pm 
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Same problems as every other late model engine except GM's LSx V8; grossly overpriced, and no aftermarket support. If you have to pay more than $500 for a complete, running example with pcm, harness, accessories, starter, all manifolds, injectors, fuel rails, TB, and flywheel or flexplate, it's the wrong engine, no matter who made it or how many liters it is.


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PostPosted: October 17, 2016, 1:18 pm 
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Joined: April 8, 2012, 7:05 pm
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Location: Warrens WI
And yet it could be the perfect engine for what he wants, and at that power and torque in a locost lack of aftermarket support may be a mote point.
In my area you cant touch any Ls v8 with what you listed for parts for under $1000 because most people around here also think it is the only viable option. I can find v6 mustangs and rangers all day long for considerably less and it would have most of the parts I would need for a locost.


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PostPosted: October 17, 2016, 1:23 pm 
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Dave1976 wrote:
Same problems as every other late model engine except GM's LSx V8; grossly overpriced, and no aftermarket support. If you have to pay more than $500 for a complete, running example with pcm, harness, accessories, starter, all manifolds, injectors, fuel rails, TB, and flywheel or flexplate, it's the wrong engine, no matter who made it or how many liters it is.



Well, FWIW i'm canadian and LSx engines are grossly overpriced up here. same goes for T56 trans, so if i intend to stay "low cost" then i need to fish for alternatives. Besides buying a running car to tear down has its advantages. for the price of a LS3 and t56 with a rear end, i could have 2 full running miatas.


pwreimann wrote:
And yet it could be the perfect engine for what he wants, and at that power and torque in a locost lack of aftermarket support may be a mote point.
In my area you cant touch any Ls v8 with what you listed for parts for under $1000 because most people around here also think it is the only viable option. I can find v6 mustangs and rangers all day long for considerably less and it would have most of the parts I would need for a locost.


My thinking exactly, no need to soup up the powertrain if it's got what i need out of the box!


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PostPosted: April 12, 2017, 6:48 pm 
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reddog wrote:
DaveH wrote:
So has anyone looked at the Ford 3.5/3.7 Cyclone family? From what I know they have a unique bellhousing that only bolts to the MT-82 transmission, but they're 265/305 hp out of the box and the 3.5s are dirt cheap because Ford put them in literally everything starting around 2007.

I keep being surprised that I can't find anything about these engines being used for swaps. There's a little bit on the Ranger forums, but not much else.


--Duratec 35
Fusion later received the Duratec 35 V6 as a top-tier "Sport" option
2008+ Taurus (local yard shows $800-$500 for grade A depending on miles, but Wiki shows this as 263hp version)

"unique bellhousing that only bolts to MT-82 transmission"
maybe there are some automatics that would also bolt up?
6R and 5R55S are also shown as Mustang transmissions, but I don't know mated to what engine(s)?
Guess I'd also like to hear about that "little bit on the Ranger forums" part from DaveH.


Here's the wikipedia list of the Duratec 35 applications:

2007-2010 Ford Edge
2007-2010 Lincoln MKX
2007–2012 Lincoln MKZ
2007 Mazda CX-9 (MZI)
2008–2012 Ford Taurus
2008–2009 Ford Taurus X
2008–2009 Mercury Sable
2010-2012 Ford Fusion Sport
2009–2012 Ford Flex
2015- Ford F-150
2011–present Ford Edge
2013–present Ford Flex
2013–present Ford Taurus
2011–present Ford Explorer

Car-part.com has 52 pages of 2008 Taurus engines (or compatible exchanges). I'm seeing a good number of part grade A at $400 or less.

I can no longer find the thread on the Ranger forums, but there's starting to be more talk about it out there. Grassroots has a thread on it. It seems getting the engine controls right is a challenge.


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PostPosted: April 19, 2017, 12:17 am 
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Location: Kamloops, BC, Canada
Just because an engine doesn't have much for bolt up transmission options and aftermarket parts doesn't mean it won't work well in a locost. I used the old pushrod V6 out of a Taurus, and it works great. Decently light, decent power if you let it breath, plenty tough if you don't go over about 6500 rpm, and basically free. It's a very smooth running engine too, mine is solidly mounted, and really doesn't vibrate the car. There were a few Aerostar minivans sold with the 3.0 paired with a T-5, and there were tons of Rangers built with manual transmissions. I used a Mitsubishi 5 speed behind mine, but had to build an adapter plate and a flywheel to do it. Adapter plates are pretty simple, and a flywheel that doesn't need any balance weight isn't much harder if you have access to a lathe.
Kristian

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PostPosted: June 9, 2017, 10:10 pm 
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Need a definitive answer. Will the Duratec 3.5 FWD (2006+) fit any RWD transmissions without an aftermarket bell housing (that cost more then the engine). I am hoping they fit the mt-82.


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PostPosted: April 11, 2018, 3:29 pm 
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Spent some time at a P&P salvaged yard last weekend.
Looked around at various cars in the yard and found that even the lowliest little crap-box econo-car now comes with an overly complex engine system.
Nothing relatively simple for the young folk to learn on, not going to be able to just slap on a 4V carb, change a cam, and add headers. :(
Modern engines may as well be sealed and scrapped when worn out, way too complex for beginners to enjoy the learning curve.
And of course modifying them is now "Illegal" anyway.

Just a vent as I feel sorry for the younger generation not having the opportunity to experience the sort of automotive adventures I had.
Maybe theres an "APP" for that? :ack: :BH:

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