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PostPosted: March 10, 2018, 7:14 pm 
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I'm installing an EZ 21-circuit (GM style, to go with my GM steering column) harness. The harness, panel, wire markings, etc. are first rate but the instructions are as horrible as they are generic & brief. :BH:

I'm using a Nippon Denso 4-wire alternator (3-prong, 1/4" spade connector lugs + a large, threaded "Bat +" lug), originally sourced from a Chev/Suzuki Tracker. I suspect it's a 40-amp, but could be as high as a 60 amp.

The three small lugs are, I understand, to be connected to 1) the dash warning light, 2) a point for sensing available battery current, and 3) a ignition-switched 12V source for powering the alt's internal regulator. The large threaded lug, well, I'd thought that would go to the battery....

The harness includes a 10 gauge wire marked "Solenoid Pwr" which, presumably, is the main power to the panel from the solenoid & battery. No problem there.

There's also a 12 gauge wire marked "Alternator Pwr", with no explanation given as to where on an alternator it should go, which way it's intended to flow current, etc.

Interestingly, the woefully inadequate alternator wiring diagram in the "instruction book" (appears to have been typed on a manual typewriter in the 1960's, diagrams drawn in crayon on an envelope, and the whole thing photocopied several times over in the 1970's - it even uses wire color codes no longer used in EZ kits) does NOT include a wire from the main "Bat +" lug on the alternator to the (+) terminal of the battery.

If I understand it correctly, the intention is that main power output from the alternator flows through this skinny 12 gauge wire to the fuse panel, with excess power going backward through the "Solenoid Pwr" wire, back to the battery.

I'm probably wrong, but it seems to me that a 40-60 amp alternator is flowing a bit more current than a 12-gauge wire is comfortable handling. I'm sure it would probably work, but I don't know that it's the best way.

I currently have a short 8-gauge cable running from the alternator (Bat +) lug to the (+) terminal of the battery. I originally did that, on the understanding (probably erroneous) that the alternator would only make current when the "sense" wire triggers the internal regulator to do so, but thought that with that much current, a short, stout cable would be best.

The way EZ suggests, current flows a total of about 10', through a 12 gauge wire, then the panel, then back to the solenoid through the 10 gauge wire, and ultimately to the battery.

For those who have worked with aftermarket harnesses, and/or GM alternators, is their intended system (deleting my 8-gauge alt-> battery wire) seem right? Or, should I also keep my 8-gauge wire direct to the battery in place?

Thanks in advance. It suuuuure would be nice if they'd included an actual "diagram"!! :roll:

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PostPosted: March 10, 2018, 8:41 pm 
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Mike, I’d think that you should look up the wiring diagram from a Chev/Suzuki Tracker and hook up your alternator according to those instructions. Seems like that would be the safest way to tackle this problem. Good luck. Bill

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PostPosted: March 10, 2018, 10:00 pm 
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Yeah, that was my first shot. Unfortunately, my Google-fu hasn't been up to the task, and searches revealed how to set up hydraulics for your outboard motor trim/tilt, home air conditioner repair troubleshooting, and everything but the wiring for a Tracker. Bear in mind, of course, that the Tracker I got the alternator from had 2 - one on the engine (inaccessible due to front end damage), and another one on the passenger's seat. As the one on the seat was a) very small, and well suited to the space I had available, and b) easier to reach, I opted for that one. Now, whether it's actually a Tracker alternator is...debatable, but likely.

Of course, when I tested it, it produced...zilch. Good thing it was cheap!! I had it rebuilt by a local alternator repair shop (ALL its diodes were cooked), and they pronounced the patient alive, well, and now putting out its rated maximum amperage.

Although its identification sticker is missing, as near as I can tell, it's a 55-amp Denso 210-4147 unit, which would be appropriate for late '90's Geo Trackers et al.

What I'm hoping is that someone here has either set up one of these alternators, or owns a late '90's Tracker/Suzuki Samurai & can tell me where the wires go.

At this point, I've found probably a dozen different wiring diagrams for similar alternators, and there's an exact 50/50 split in opinions - half say a heavy gauge cable to the battery is required, and the other half says this is NOT the way to do it.

So - I'm faced with a dilemma, and hoping beyond hope that someone else, here (whose opinions I trust), can point me in the right direction. Bear in mind I'm possessed of an extremely minimal skillset when it comes to electrical bits & bobs, so...basically, I'm looking for a shortcut!

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Last edited by zetec7 on March 10, 2018, 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: March 10, 2018, 10:11 pm 
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The Greater Victoria Public Library has the manual on the shelf. It should have all of the wiring diagrams in it.

Attachment:
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PostPosted: March 11, 2018, 1:36 am 
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Hmmm - thanks, Bill - I hadn't thought of that! I haven't been in a library for...eons. Last time I was there, all the cars were steam powered... :D

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PostPosted: March 11, 2018, 2:48 am 
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Mike

Here's some chicken scratch.

Also sent you a PM

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PostPosted: March 11, 2018, 7:58 am 
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My copy of the manual says that if you have an alternator over 80 Amps you have to bypass the alternator wiring in the harness and wire the alternator to the starter solinoid with the included bypass wire.

The reason the wire runs into the fuse panel is beacause if you have an older vehicle with an amp meter or if you are running an amp meter all the power from the alternator has to go into the fuse panel and backwards into the battery for the meter to work correctly. If you are not using an amp meter than it can be wired either way.


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PostPosted: March 11, 2018, 9:19 am 
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late to the party.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CHEVY-SUZUKI-D ... 1276216843


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PostPosted: March 11, 2018, 9:22 am 
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I can tell you, from first hand experience dealing with one in a buddies 318 swapped truck, that those "painless" harnesses are overpriced, overhyped, and anything but painless. :BH:

My sympathies that you are dealing with one.

You will need to keep the 8 gauge wire from the alternator stud to the battery, the 12 gauge is just the excitation wire for the field.


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PostPosted: March 12, 2018, 2:40 pm 
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Gentlemen, thanks to all for your help! I think I have it figured out now (well, at least THIS issue!!).

This forum is the GREATEST!! :cheers:

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PostPosted: March 13, 2018, 9:27 am 
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zetec7 wrote:
I'm using a Nippon Denso 4-wire alternator (3-prong, 1/4" spade connector lugs + a large, threaded "Bat +" lug), originally sourced from a Chev/Suzuki Tracker. I suspect it's a 40-amp, but could be as high as a 60 amp.

The three small lugs are, I understand, to be connected to 1) the dash warning light, 2) a point for sensing available battery current, and 3) a ignition-switched 12V source for powering the alt's internal regulator. The large threaded lug, well, I'd thought that would go to the battery....


I forgot to mention that when you wire the sense wire be careful where you connect it. If it is just jumped right by the alternator you will get 14.4V at the alternator but you may have significantly less at the battery or at the fuse box. If it is attached to the battery you will get 14.4V at the battery but may have low voltage at the fuse box. If it is attached at the fuse box then you will get 14.4 volts at the fuse box and you could get over voltage to the battery. Ideally it should be attached at the same point that the battery and fuse box get there power. So if you jump the alternator to the starter and get power for the fuse box there also then you should attach your sense wire there also. But also double check with max electrical load to verify that you do not get an over voltage at the battery and that you do not have a significant voltage drop at the fuse panel that could damage things such as the computer if the voltage is to low.


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PostPosted: March 13, 2018, 2:00 pm 
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Hmm - that's a good point. The pre-made harness has a "sense" wire provided, attached to somewhere inside the fuse panel, to suit GM-style wiring systems, and intended to simply be connected to the "sense" terminal of the alternator. I don't have anything connected to power yet, so I don't know how much voltage drop, through use, there will be at that point.

I'll see if I can trace it through the back of the fuse panel & see which of the several internal buss bars it's connected to. That should give me a pretty good idea how much draw there will be there, and how much voltage drop it should see.

Thanks!

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PostPosted: March 13, 2018, 2:16 pm 
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Somewhat related, I'm surprised some of you are getting away with such small alternators, unless they're on carbureted cars. Way back during design I listed out all the loads on my own (EFI) car:

Fan 20-30A
Oxygen sensor 10A
Lights (non-LED) 10A
Fuel pump 10-15A
ECU 5 A

So steady state it could be (driving in the dark in stop-and-go traffic) as much as 70 A continuous.

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PostPosted: March 13, 2018, 3:01 pm 
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Yeah, I get that! Heck, my GoldWing motorcycle has a 95 amp alternator (an aftermarket, specially-adapted Saturn car unit), and my Locost only has a 55 amp one! Of course, the 'Wing has 96 lights total on it, plus heated grips and a whole host of other electrical farkles, and a tiny battery. It originally came with a (nominally) 40 amp alternator which was basically the absolute minimum possible for it to run with. I upgraded...

My Locost, though, is indeed carbureted, has no stereo or other electrical bits & bobs, and only needs enough juice to run the few required lights & the ignition. The total draw should be quite a bit less than that of my GoldWing in stock form. According to the calculations I've found, I'm likely to see a maximum of about 40 amps' draw total, with everything running (engine running, all lights on, halogen headlights on high beam, electric fan running, etc.), so the 55 amp alternator should be sufficient. It's been rebuilt to new specifications for output, so I'm hoping all will be good.

I have a set of aftermarket LED headlight bulbs for the car but, as the DOT has not got around to approving them yet, I'll have to wait until after my final inspection to install them. They will make a BIG difference - a drop in the car's maximum draw of at least 10-15 amps. Realistically, I expect my halogen bulbs to only see about 1 minute's use total - for my initial test, and during final inspection. Once it's inspected & I get it home, the LED's go in. They produce accurately-aimed light, at a fraction of the draw, and are MUCH brighter (and run much cooler) than halogens. Definitely something worth considering for those of us with smaller alternators!

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http://zetec7.webs.com/


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PostPosted: March 14, 2018, 4:32 pm 
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Well, I think I finally have it sorted out, but it's been a long haul!

I decided to send an email to EZ Wiring, hoping that one of their techs could lift the shadows for me.

Surprisingly, a tech named "R Souza" got back to, me almost immediately, and I've been conversing back & forth with him for an hour or so.

In the end, this is what it's going to look like:

Attachment:
282_PLUG connections 2.jpg
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What seems strange to me is that ALL the alternator's output current goes to the main fuse panel through the single, 12-gauge, "ALT POWER" wire. Thankfully, its total travel will be no more than 3 feet, but still...

I do also have an 8-gauge wire going from the alternator's "BATT" lug to my battery (or, it could go to the solenoid, which would take it back to the battery anyway) which doesn't show in my cheesy diagram, so I suppose there's an alternate (sic!) route for charge. The tech said it was no problem leaving this cable connected, as it can't hurt.

Does this make sense to y'all?

***EDIT*** I'm not sure about the "jumper wire" to pole "L". My buddy figures that pole provides a ground for the warning lamp, and that the jumper would make a ground short. I'm confused about that, as every diagram I've seen for multi-wire alternators includes one.

****EDIT #2*** As I wasn't sure about the jumper wire issue, I contacted the shop that did the rebuild on this alternator & spoke to their resident Denso expert in person. He confirmed that the "L" pole does, indeed, form a ground (to ground the warning lamp, rather than supply power to it), so a jumper wire should not be used.

Weird - all of the aftermarket harness manufacturers call for one, but then, they all refer to GM alternators, so they must be very different internally. In any case, as there was no wire provided in the harness for a warning lamp, and as I wanted to use wire different from the rest in the harness, I found a length of red wire with a green tracer to use. As there are no other wires in the harness with a tracer, this will ensure I can pick this one out from the rest & wire it appropriately.

Anyway, it's sorted now!! This is what it looks like. As I'm using an LED warning lamp, I'll have to add a resistor in-line with the lamp to give enough resistance for the alternator's ground triggering to function properly, as this was confirmed by my alternator technician. He commented that some have simply added a small incandescent bulb, sealed in a box, as enough to give the required resistance.

Thanks again, folks! You've all helped me get a grip on this, as always - this forum is the greatest!!

Attachment:
282_PLUG connections 2 FINAL.jpg
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http://zetec7.webs.com/


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