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Hello,
I have been working on my 1996 4.6L Ford Romeo 4V Mod Motor and getting it ready for my build.

What my problem is I don't have the original wire harness or computers to hook it up.

I have the original automatic transmission and now a M5 standard OD trans also.

What I'm needing to know is do I really need to have the original computers and wires or can I just go with MSD computers and make my own harness.

I have made harnesses for custom marine applications and a few auto applications but haven't made a harness for a fuel injected engine.

Is this do-able or should I just find a harness and computer from a junk yard dog.

I have heard the original Ford computer for this engine is pretty good for a factory unit, almost as good as an aftermarket MSD system.

Can I hook this thing up to perform decent/good with aftermarket components or should I just buy factory parts and roll with that?

Thanks!

Mark.....

Either way you will likely want to buy a harness for the 4.6L (mustang?). It will cost a fortune for all the correct connectors for the sensors etc. Someone may make a harness to swap a 4.6L into a hotrod though, have a look at Painless Wiring etc.

In terms of computers:

-If you use a ford ECU, you will want to tune it so you will need a tuning program or chip as well ($300-600). I am not too familiar with ford tuning, but I know those years were not great to work with. Also, it may have antitheft you will need to work around. A ford forum should be a goldmine for the information you need.

-Have you looked into Megasquirt?

Cheers.
Cory

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Build log: viewtopic.php?t=9291

Cory,
Yes I have done some reading on the megasquirt system and decided that megsquirt is the best way to go for the fuel injection.

Then I read for the the ignition system, the factory mustang cobra computer is almost as good or is as good as MSD ignition system with rev limiter an crank trigger setup.

Not sure if the factory computer has the rev limiter though.

Then another thing, if I go with my automatic transmission I have I'll need a computer to control the shifting of it.

This motor is kinda complicated because it relies on all these computers to function.

I like my 4.6L 4V mod motor but it sure has a lot of sensitive and costly things going on with just the electrical system.

I'm thinking I'm going to have to find a doner just for the electricals involved with this crazy thing.

If I go the aftermarket computers and wireing route I may end up spending way more money than I originally spent on the motor and transmission together.

I have a feeling I'm gonna have a hard time finding a harness outta a junk yard because when they remove the motors around here they cut the wires instead of unplugging them.

I was trying to build this car without purchasing a doner but it's looking like it might get kinda costly if I don't.

I don't really have a set budget but I would like to only spend about six or eight grand on this thing.

Thanks for the info on the painless wireing company, have heard about them but never bought from them before.



Mark.

Cory,

I just signed up for the Factory Five forum and found all kinds of Mod Motor info.

Seems like quite a few folks there are putting Mod Motors in their cobra kits and such.

I'll still be checking here though just in case someone here can help also.

Cheers!


Mark.

I've also seen intake and ignition setups to put carbs on the 4.6 if you want to go that route.
Kristian

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Kristian,

Yes I have seen a few pictures of a Yellow Mod Motor in a T Bucket car with a blower set up on top.

The motor looked really nice but I hear the guy had problems with tuning to get opt performance.

I have been reading a bit on the Factory Five forum and they have a sticky about why you should go with a lincoln mark VIII doner as opposed to the Mustang Cobra doner.

It seems that the Lincoln Mark VIII has a lot of parts that are more durable than the Mustang parts.

At this point I'm pretty much convinced that I'll be looking for a 96-98 Mark VIII doner in the near future.

My motor and auto transmission has 38,000 original miles on it and the insides of the engine looks brand new.

I was going to go with a Mustang straight axle but the Factory Five forum, what I read, states that the Lincoln aluminum center section IRS is a more durable and desireable setup and they make shortened rear axle shafts for it.

Also read some talk about the lincoln wire harness and how to put it on a diet or I can just buy a used lincoln harness lightened up by someone on the forum.

Here is the link to FFC 4.6L builds and it's quite interesting what a Lincoln Mark VIII doner has to offer

http://www.ffcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172894

I think I'm on the right track with my build now and will be looking for a doner Linc for the parts I need.

I think this build is gonna be fun and interesting.

Thanks!


Mark.

+1 on considering Mark VIII parts. If you need wiring/computer stuff, you could prolly get it cheaper of a Mark VIII than a Mustang Cobra.

I talked to Bill Emerson (Emerson Motorsports - builds Cobra replicas) about the modulars last year; he says they're pretty bad to wire because of the complexity. It didn't look too fun when I saw it either.
He did have some sort of connection kit from teh internet to hook it up to his engine management, I wish I could remember what it was.

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Jest another locostusa lurker... for now

I'm just curious Mark, Why do you think the MegaSquirt is not up to the task of handling the ignition too? I'm running the MSII on a rotary but from what I read, the MS3 system can handle up to 8 individual COP's.

I would think that one integrated system would be simpler to tune than two separate systems.

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Chuck.

“Any suspension will work if you don’t let it.” - Colin Chapman

Visit my ongoing MGB Rustoration log: over HERE

Or my Wankel powered Locost log : over HERE

And don't forget my Cushman Truckster resto Locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=17766

I'd forgotten about the FFR guys. They would be the best to talk to for sure.

There are lots of harnesses for sale on Ebay. Looks like they are mostly selling them piece by piece though (ECU to bulkhead, bulkhead to engine harness, then the engine harness alone).

A local wrecker will usually get a harness for you if you ask for it.

The ford ECUs from that era kinda of suck to tune with iirc. I think you are going to have a trade off of either the reliability of the ford ECU, VS the performance/tunability of the megasquirt or aftermarket ECU. Last I looked aftermarket ECUs were $1000+ so I am assuming they are out of budget.

If you think you can handle the megasquirt, I would buy an engine harness and wire it to the megasquirt. I would not piggyback the ford ECU to the megasquirt for the ignition; You will likely end up with some hiccups that will be almost impossible to diagnose. The megasquirt can handle your ignition just fine. Are you COP (coil on plug) or do you have the two coils on the front of the engine?

Those engines were pretty sensitive to timing iirc. You will want full control over it if you want to get some power, and avoid detonation.

If you use the auto trans, you are kind of stuck with the ford ECU. At that point you may be best buying a donor car (truck, lincoln, mustang) and taking what you need.

Can you get around the antitheft on a ford w/o the BCM (body control unit, or maybe anittheft module. Ford likes using lots of different modules)? I forget.

This is why I use GM powertrain for my projects. $500 for a tuner and you are done :þ Ford is getting better about it though.

Cheers.
Cory

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Build log: viewtopic.php?t=9291

What is so complex about wiring the mod V8 if an after market EFI is used?

Bill

Guys,

Well I have to admit, going the megasquirt route seems like a lot easyer road.

The more I read the more confused I am getting right now because I did want to stay with my automatic transmission.

I own seven vehicles and 95% of them I have to shift so it's getting kinda shifty around here.

And yes GM makes it so much easyer on us builders.

I asked around some of the local salvage yards today and they all say they "haven't thought about it much" but the Mark VIII for some reason is kinda scarce in our area.

I have a long time Friend that lives on the next street behind me who owns a salvage yard and he's looking out for a Mark VIII for me now.

I need the rear axle assembly anyway. might as well wait and see what he finds.

With my luck the second I get the megasquirt installed my phone will ring saying he found a Mark VIII for me.


Thanks for your time in helping me figure this out!

Oh and my coils are on the front of the engine and not on the plugs.

It would sure be nice to have them on the plugs though.

$$$$$$$$


Mark.

I don't know where you are but if you are in B.C., there is a guy in Abbotsford, last name "Lyons" that is doing a harness for me as I am using an LS1 in my car. I talked to him the other day and he just said to send the ECM and what wiring I have to him and he will make up a harness with only four wires coming out , hot, ground, throttle position and one other thing. He said I could install a painless harness or equivilant in the car for the lights etc., and his harness would plug into it. If you need his number I can dig it up.

AL

In order to run a drivable EFI engine under variable conditions, you need:
Engine coolant temp sensor
Air manifold temp sensor
Crank sensor
Manifold pressure sensor (or MAF sensor, depending on ECM)
Throttle position sensor
Injector wires
Coil control

If you have any intention of tuning the engine, you will need an oxygen sensor, unless you plan on doing the tuning on a dyno. An engine driven by an ECM with 4 wires on it can probably be tuned to run well at wide open throttle, but overall, will be miserable.

Bill

I think you will find it will make the megasquirt process much easier with the EDIS ignition. Enough to make it worth the few HP you lose (if any). That, and the ford COP aren't exactly known for their quality

Cheers.
Cory

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Build log: viewtopic.php?t=9291

HI BBLUE

When I got my LS1 it came with the ECM and the engine harness with all the sensors. Even the before and after CAT sensors. The engine came out of a Z28 Camaro with the T56 6 speed. It came with the complete wiring harness back to the tail-lights, and the instrument cluster which i intend to use in my seven. I decided to use a tilt column out of a chev S-10 so all the switches and plugs will work. Almost all hot rod type wiring harnesses (ie; Painless) are designed to work with a chevy type column. All that I will use out of the body harness is some of the plugs. There will be NO air, NO windows, NO interior lights, NO heater, (although I will have a defroster switch) HERE if you have a windshield, you have to have wipers and a defroster.
When I talked to most people about the CAT sensors, they tell me I don't need to run the after-cat one and when the ECM tuner is doing his thing he eliminates the second one. Apparentely the second one only tells you the condition of the CAT.

AL