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PostPosted: February 4, 2016, 10:01 pm 
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I thought you were working on a cougar where the flasher suddenly stopped working and not the locost.

One chassis ground for E is enough.

I'd check your combination hazard/turn switch connections.

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PostPosted: February 4, 2016, 10:12 pm 
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Trochu, please post the rest of the hazard/turn signal wiring diagram. Hopefully including the right side lamps and the complete switch assembly.

Are you using the full wiring harness and switches?

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PostPosted: February 5, 2016, 6:32 am 
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Apparently the symptoms are common to the combination/multifunction switch (MFD). I found this while looking for schematics:

http://www.mn12tech.com/turn-signal-swi ... cement.php

Even if you did check the operation prior to teardown, these kinds of problems are usually intermittent.

Looks like you have 2, possibly 3 good flashers.

As for electronic flashers, I found they are sensitive to slightly loose connections so slightly crimp any spade terminals for a snug fit.

I found a schematic for a newer mustang that I think is the same functionally.

Electro-mechanical flasher, electronic flasher, led flasher, and lighting control module are all interchangeable terms.

Some have extra functionality like bulb out warning, more terminals for more connections, and brake light control input/output. As long as the flasher is not thermal, it will work fine with leds.


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Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


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PostPosted: February 5, 2016, 11:12 am 
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Thanks guys. I've read up on the switch issues and while it may very well be the issue, I don't get why it would work if I switch H and L. I'm probably missing something simple, I'll go through it again over the weekend and maybe take the switch apart to ensure there are no loose wires or corrosion.

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PostPosted: February 5, 2016, 11:42 am 
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If what MV8 posted is the same circuit as the Cougar, I have 2 things to try. And 1 workaround suggestion.

1) Verify that you have 12V all the time on the "B" Terminal. This is what appears to power the Hazard circuit. The "I" terminal appears to power the turn signals. If no 12V, then there will be no hazard.

2) Check if the flasher itself is good. Here is how. Remove both wires from "L" and "H". Place one test light on the "L" terminal and one on the "H" terminal. The "H" light should constantly flash whether the ignition is on or off. The "L" test light should flash only when the ignition is on. This eliminates the multifunction switch totally and tests only the flasher. I would suggest using real light bulbs for this test. If this works, then something is wrong with the multifunction switch or the wiring after the flasher module.




For a possible workaround, what I will suggest will result in either a) have hazards only if the ignition is "on", or b) have turn signal action even when the ignition key is off. Different wiring depending on which way would you like it.

For action a) disconnect the wire from the "H" terminal and connect that wire AND the "L" wire to the "L" terminal

For action b) do that same as "a)" and remove the "B" wire and place it on the "I" terminal, leaving the "I" wire disconnected

The workaround is based on your earlier report that the turn signals work as you now have it and the "hazards" worked when placed on the "L" terminal.

If the multifunction switch turns out to be defective, then all this may be moot.

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PostPosted: February 6, 2016, 7:27 pm 
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I put a meter on B and have 12 volts at all times, ignition on or off. I have 12 volts at I with the ignition on, zero with it off.

I disconnected terminals L and H and hooked up two test lights. L flashed continually, ignition on or off, hazards on or off, indicators on or off. The light hooked up to H never came on at all. This scenario presented itself with both flashers I bought.

I also tried your suggested workaround to no avail.

Going to check the switch right now and I bought another flasher, a Novita EP27.

I am using the full harness and switches.

Edit: Of course, the assembly is screwed together with size 10 security torx screws, which I don't have.

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PostPosted: February 6, 2016, 9:09 pm 
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Quote:
I disconnected terminals L and H and hooked up two test lights. L flashed continually, ignition on or off,
I don't think that should be right. I think the turn signals, terminal L, should only work with the ign on. I guess I don't understand this like I thought I did. I need to search where the LM470 is supposed to work on.

Why is it, when I look up the flasher for a 1992 Merc Cougar, I get a 3-terminal flasher?

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PostPosted: February 6, 2016, 10:59 pm 
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"Why is it, when I look up the flasher for a 1992 Merc Cougar, I get a 3-terminal flasher?"

Not sure, this is the old/stock unit:

http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/1992/mercury/cougar/body_electrical/turn_signal_flasher.html

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PostPosted: February 7, 2016, 8:02 am 
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Forgive the oversimplification, but the devil is in the details.
You didn't fully explain how you were testing it.
You are the MFD in making the connections. Connecting the load cuts it on.

Try testing the original flasher while you are at it.
Have the hazards ever worked on the donor?
You haven't shown or described how you've wired the car, what lights you are using, etc.

EP27 is the same basic unit with a different stamp on the side.

Novita is in TN. They may respond by phone, but email has the same problems as posting or writing a letter.


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Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


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PostPosted: February 7, 2016, 6:30 pm 
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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
Forgive the oversimplification, but the devil is in the details.
You didn't fully explain how you were testing it.
You are the MFD in making the connections. Connecting the load cuts it on.

Try testing the original flasher while you are at it.
Have the hazards ever worked on the donor?
You haven't shown or described how you've wired the car, what lights you are using, etc.

EP27 is the same basic unit with a different stamp on the side.

Novita is in TN. They may respond by phone, but email has the same problems as posting or writing a letter.


The original flasher no longer works, somebody broke it..... :roll:
I had all indicator and hazards working with it prior to its demise. It was doing the rapid flash which indicates a dead bulb due to the low draw of the LCD lights, but it was operational. I am utilizing the stock wiring and front bulbs. On the rear, I'm using stock wiring connected to LCD tail lights, simply cut the stock and connected the pigtails.

I performed the three scenarios you've diagrammed. Two test lights, checked that they worked off the battery before and after the test. Checked the battery, reads steady at 12.74. I clamped the positive leads to the battery, the negative to the frame, and am using alligator clips on the flasher. Connections were all checked multiple times.

Scenario 1:
-L flashed both bulbs every time.
-H never flashed once, no matter the build, order I connected the wires, etc. I checked the volts, it was reading around 12 with and without L connected.

Scenario 2:
-L flashes, but only if H is connected to the other test bulb.
-The test bulb connected to H does not flash.
-0 volts at L when not hooked up tho the test light;
-12 volts at H when not connected to the test light.
-12 volts at L when both connected and 0 at H.

Scenario 3
-test light flashes.

This was making no sense to me, dropped a hot wire and appeared to have fried the flasher. I hooked up the EP27. Bonus points if you figured out what I did wrong. The two ground wires was still bugging me though, why would Ford run two grounding wires? Devil indeed, I hooked (edit) them both up to a ground that ran to the frame and to the negative terminal on the battery. I don't understand it, but it works now.

Forgive the grammar, I'm on my phone and editing is unpleasant.

Thanks again MiataV8 and Chuck, I'd have blown my fifth flasher and still be at ground zero without your help.

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Last edited by Trochu on February 8, 2016, 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: February 7, 2016, 10:17 pm 
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If you have it working, Great!

However I still don't understand some of your responses. You say:
Quote:
Scenario 1:
-L flashed both bulbs every time.
-H never flashed once, no matter the build, order I connected the wires, etc. I checked the volts, it was reading around 12 with and without L connected.

However-L has only one light, not two. So I get confused. Easily done sometimes, I'll admit.

You say that the H light doesn't flash but never say whether the light is on and stays on or is dark and stays dark.

Then you go on and say:
Quote:
I hooked up the EP27. Bonus points if you figured out what I did wrong. The two ground wires was still bugging me though, why would Ford run two grounding wires? Devil indeed, I hooked one to the frame and one to a ground that ultimately runs back to the negative terminal on the battery. I don't understand it, but it works now.
Did the EP27 light work in the test circuit on the bench? Did it work in the car? Did you have to split the "ground "wires to get it to work or did it work when you first plugged it in?

Complete information and thorough descriptions will help the next person who read this trying to figure out why his LP470 flasher doesn't work. I'm glad you have it working but cannot say why. Except, I believe that the LM470 and the EP27 are not the exact same unit with different part numbers on them. Novita and retailers wouldn't build and stock 2 identical items without some reason. Something is different. Unfortunately, Novita doesn't give typical wiring diagrams.

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Visit my ongoing MGB Rustoration log: over HERE

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And don't forget my Cushman Truckster resto Locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=17766


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PostPosted: February 8, 2016, 11:50 am 
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rx7locost wrote:
If you have it working, Great!

However I still don't understand some of your responses. You say:
Quote:
Scenario 1:
-L flashed both bulbs every time.
-H never flashed once, no matter the build, order I connected the wires, etc. I checked the volts, it was reading around 12 with and without L connected.

However-L has only one light, not two. So I get confused. Easily done sometimes, I'll admit.

You say that the H light doesn't flash but never say whether the light is on and stays on or is dark and stays dark.

Then you go on and say:
Quote:
I hooked up the EP27. Bonus points if you figured out what I did wrong. The two ground wires was still bugging me though, why would Ford run two grounding wires? Devil indeed, I hooked one to the frame and one to a ground that ultimately runs back to the negative terminal on the battery. I don't understand it, but it works now.
Did the EP27 light work in the test circuit on the bench? Did it work in the car? Did you have to split the "ground "wires to get it to work or did it work when you first plugged it in?

Complete information and thorough descriptions will help the next person who read this trying to figure out why his LP470 flasher doesn't work. I'm glad you have it working but cannot say why. Except, I believe that the LM470 and the EP27 are not the exact same unit with different part numbers on them. Novita and retailers wouldn't build and stock 2 identical items without some reason. Something is different. Unfortunately, Novita doesn't give typical wiring diagrams.


Sorry Chuck, I was on my phone and I honestly don't have enough electrical knowledge to know whats important to comment on or not.

Quote:
However-L has only one light, not two.

I hooked both terminals up to different lights then I'd switch the terminals with the lights. I was attempting to eliminate a poor ground, dead bulb, shorting in the test light, etc. When hooked up separately, terminal L flashed both test lights.

Quote:
You say that the H light doesn't flash but never say whether the light is on and stays on or is dark and stays dark.

It stayed dark.

Quote:
Did the EP27 light work in the test circuit on the bench?

I never tried it on the bench but put it straight in the car.

Quote:
Did it work in the car?

It works in the car.

Quote:
Did you have to split the "ground "wires to get it to work or did it work when you first plugged it in?

I didn't split them, but tied them both into the negative terminal on the battery.

Quote:
I'm glad you have it working but cannot say why.

I am too and neither can I.

What I want to believe is that I had a poor ground. But then I can't explain why terminal L worked (I simply used a vise grip, one grounding wire on top of the other, and clamped them to the frame), but H did not. If it was a poor ground, I don't think L should have worked either. I used a meter to check the frame and was getting zero.

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PostPosted: February 9, 2016, 10:01 am 
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Quote:
What I want to believe is that I had a poor ground. But then I can't explain why terminal L worked (I simply used a vise grip, one grounding wire on top of the other, and clamped them to the frame), but H did not. If it was a poor ground, I don't think L should have worked either. I used a meter to check the frame and was getting zero.


I'm going to chalk this one up to the LM470 as being the wrong device. That, and possibly a human error in experimentation. For me, every bit of observation reported, whether it seems important or not, helps to describe what is occurring. That will help in determining whether things are as they seem, or not. And possibly may help to determine the thing that is wrong. The more information you can provide, the better. For example, you said earlier that the voltage on the H terminal was 12V. But the H test light stayed dark. This cannot happen IF the actual circuit was as the picture showed. It may mean that there is a disconnected wire somewhere or the wire is at some other location than shown. Not a real problem, it just needs to be understood that the "not working" condition being tested may not be due to the device itself , but possibly the external circuit.

Anyway, congratulations! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: and :cheers:

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Visit my ongoing MGB Rustoration log: over HERE

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And don't forget my Cushman Truckster resto Locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=17766


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